Brent: 0:04

It's the Trashalanch podcast! It's the only about the Pokemon trading card game. Guys, um, uh, in terms of housekeeping, I have no idea if Mike Fouchet is actually listening to the pod while he's raising but I sent him the first ever piece of Trashalanch merch. Um, I'm gonna discuss it with you guys, so the people listening to the pod will know what's up. Hopefully Mike doesn't listen to this pod, so it'll be a surprise. But I want you guys to just be in awe of the thing that I did. I was like, okay, we're gonna print this Trashalanch t shirt. And so I got like the Trashalanch t shirt with the Trashalanch logo y thing. with a Trubbish on it.

Cam: 0:42

No,

Kaden: 0:45

Okay, that is amazing.

Brent: 0:46

That's really good, right? Like, yeah. Yeah. Uh, I was like, I don't know what incredible artistic revelation occurred that caused that to like, burst into my brain, but I was like, I'm putting a Trish on this onesie and like, it's gonna be disgusting. that I did and, and I thought you guys would like to, uh, hear about it. Uh, um, That means we will probably have trash shirts for NAIC. So when you're packing, that's one less shirt you gotta pack. It's that easy. Alright, Dragonshield! You guys saw my Dragonshield tweet. We're on Twitter. We support Dragonshield are nice and we like great sleeves and all that stuff. Um, We're the only Pokemon trading card game. Attendance 133%. We're missing Mike Mike is raising his, uh, uh, future world champion right now. But, uh, hopefully he'll be back at some point when he recognizes that, on the one hand, children are okay, but Pokemon Gotta have your priorities. Um, Let's see, the other thing I should say I haven't gotten a 5 star review in a while, but we got a lot of people listening. If you leave a review, we will read it on the pod. It is by far the easiest way to make sure that whatever you want to say, it does not literally, it literally does not matter what you want to say. We will read it on the pod. All you got to do is leave a review. It's that easy. It's a guarantee. Guys, I thought we should kick things off. We said we were going to talk about the state of coaching, I want to talk about the state of coaching. I don't know if you guys saw how I won the internet for myself yesterday by replying to an Azul tweet with a fantastic coaching tweet. Did you see this, Cam? Azul, Azul

Cam: 2:23

I did not. I'll go look it up right now.

Brent: 2:26

tweets that like, people that lose but don't have a process are losers because like, you know, they, they fall into their own trap of thinking like RNG is dragons. Yeah, he kinda, he essentially gives the long form version of Liam's Willpower tweet. And then, and then I reply, You know, sign up for my How to Have a Process class on Metaphy, sold out! Just a few slots remaining.

Cam: 2:54

Oh boy.

Brent: 2:56

I recognize that it's unfortunate that there are no other podcasts about the Pokemon trading card game, but, but I have heard a rumor that the Lake of Rage did a podcast about whether or not people should be able to make a living playing Pokemon because Tord made 7, 000 on his Metaphy class. And, and I know we talked last week about how, if you're not offering a Dragapult class now, you're not getting ahead of the curve. And lo, Zack Lesage is like, offering his Dragapult class.

Cam: 3:25

Very nice.

Kaden: 3:28

I just feel like, especially for deck man, like, I mean, go get the bag, but also, um, you do not have the practice or the testing or, you know, frankly, the credentials to properly teach untested and unproven.

Liam: 3:47

Yeah. I wouldn't go except for the CPA guys on CPA and tour. Um, that's the, only class I would go to ever.

Kaden: 3:55

was the, well, I mean, there are a few other ones that I've thought about, like, for instance, um, you know, when Xander did his Mew class. You know, maybe last, sometime last year. Like, that's another example. He's been playing Mew, like, he'd been playing Mew constantly, like, every tournament, and he knew Mew better than anyone a ton of sense to go to. Same with, like, Bradner with Lost Tina. Um, I feel like, for me to go to one of those or want to go to one of those, I would need, I would need to feel really confident that the person actually knows the deck way, way better than pretty much anyone else.

Liam: 4:33

Yeah. There's, there's way too many classes being run when only one person can be like the best in the world for a given deck. And, and you know, people are just turning around at like, making classes after, like a mediocre finish, you know, they get day two, oop. Time for a Manaphy masterclass. mean, yeah, go get that bag, like Hayden said, it's an absolute move. Um,

Brent: 4:53

so I the rejoinder that, like, Uh, and, and you know, seeing, seeing, uh, hearing you say that made me think about how I, I had a moment this weekend where I was like, ain't nobody wanna see the 54th place at the Puerto Rico But like, um, uh, uh, you know, I, I'm sure the rejoinder to that is some people would say, I'm a very good teacher, yo. So, like, the fact that I'm not the best in the world at that deck at teach in that deck.'cause my teaching skills be off the chart.

Liam: 5:24

Uh, I hate that argument.

Brent: 5:25

I've taught so many classes, it's like I'm out of control of teaching classes.

Liam: 5:31

yeah, like, it applies to very new players. If players have literally never played the Pokemon TCG before, being a teacher is probably more valuable than being good at the game. competitive and trying to improve. I mean, the person teaching you has to know what they're talking about. So, like, less people that know, like, what they're talking about, um, than, like, the amount of people who are trying to, like, run these metafy classes. you know, you have to really target the people who know what they're talking about. Um, Cause that's the They can't teach you if they don't know what they're talking about.

Brent: 6:09

How much better than you do you think they have to be to be able to teach it? like a little bit better? You know? Like, I mean, I recognize that like a little bit of it is, uh, a little bit of the people who we see frequently teaching classes is the, you know, I make Day 2 regularly, therefore I'm obviously better than you. must absolutely trigger you, I assume, Liam. Yeah, I

Liam: 6:29

You're trolling. You're trolling.

Brent: 6:31

think Pacific

Liam: 6:32

Show me some top 8s, bro. Like, Azul should be running Manaphy classes.

Brent: 6:35

Um, however, if

Liam: 6:36

CPOW guys should be running Manaphy classes. Torrid should be running Manaphy classes. Brent Tonneson should be running Manaphy classes. Rowan Stabenow, Manaphy classes. Everybody else, yeah, you're not that good. yeah, check the good players list

Kaden: 6:51

Let's not say, let's not say everyone else. You did not list every good player in the world just

Liam: 6:54

Yeah, no, no, I have a, I have a good players list. But there's, there are players who are on and then there's everybody else. And, everybody else bracket, um, who are running a lot of metafy classes. Uh, they don't know what they're talking about as much as the people who are in the like, good players bracket. Um, you should go to the good players to, to learn, learn stuff.

Kaden: 7:15

yeah, I mean, I think my feeling on it is, you know, again, like, go get the bag. Like, if people are willing to pay you and you can market yourself well enough that people are willing to pay you to teach them, like, absolutely go for it. Like, I'm not I'm not saying that people who aren't as good at the game should not be running Medify classes and getting this, and getting this income, like, Absolutely.

Liam: 7:33

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Kaden: 7:35

like, for me, for me, I would not choose, I would not choose to take them, and so I, you know, and I wouldn't really recommend them to pretty much anyone, um, but with that being said, you know, if you have an audience, Like, I'm not gonna say you should, yeah, I'm not gonna say you shouldn't be running

Liam: 7:53

sure. If you can get people to buy your stuff, there's no reason Not to sell it. Um, Yeah, Um, I actually think, I think it's a little bit better. Um, In that when you do an hour of coaching, it's for like the session. Like, um, there's not, they're not making a giant slide deck for a session or something like that. Whereas that's the case in, uh, like these Metaphy you're doing like two hours of preparation to identify, like, what's the most common mistakes, um, when it comes to this stuff. Cam is shaking his head vigorously, so I'll just let him, let him give his thoughts. We haven't heard from him on this yet.

Cam: 8:36

I mean, that just depends on if the person, the coach, does prepare or not. Like, they can definitely wholeheartedly prepare if they want to. It's up to

Liam: 8:45

I mean, if you've never had a coaching session with somebody before, how much preparation does a coach do?

Cam: 8:50

It depends on the coach. Like, I can ask a bunch of questions about what their goals are. I spend Usually more time than just the strict hour with the person the first time because I'm trying to get to know them and what their

Liam: 9:02

Yeah, Tor spent two hours on his session, bro. Yeah.

Cam: 9:05

like, it just depends, right, like, on the person and if

Liam: 9:08

Like, I find at least

Cam: 9:10

a coach or just, like, they just want to get

Liam: 9:14

I mean, I, I do the same thing when I coach, uh, and like, I'm having a session with somebody for the first time, I ask them a bunch of questions. I'm like, how long have you been playing? What decks are you liking? Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. The whole thing.

Cam: 9:25

You can ask that before the session too.

Liam: 9:27

Yeah, yes, exactly. I, I do do that. I asked before the session, but I think it's still, it's lower quality preparation than a whole entire slide deck and you actually, like, think, critically about what most people are like, like, it being, it being general, um, different types of like, exploration, um, into decks and, like, different as opposed to, like, trying to hone in on, like, the specifics of gameplay. Um, Which makes it a lot harder for, like, a single session. I, I think a single session, single coaching session, first time,

Kaden: 10:01

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the one thing that I'll add is, like feel, I feel like generally the um, classes is better if you're trying to um, either generally, if you're trying to generally improve at a deck. Um, I think that there have definitely been moments for me where I have, you know, there's been one specific matchup that I really just wanted practice on and to iron out, and I think for that, like, direct one on one coaching and sitting down for an hour or even two hours and just testing that matchup with someone who knows it really well infinitely better than like a more, you know, less focused class. Um, However, if you're just like, you know, I know Zard pretty well, I want, but I want to get better, I think probably a class is better, but honestly maybe not even, because if you're It depends on what level you're at, because if you're not making obvious mistakes, then a class might not answer, and you might not actually be able to figure out your areas of improvement. Whereas, you know, targeted one on one coaching can exactly, you know, what are, the types of mistakes that I make most frequently, um, those mistakes.

Liam: 11:11

I guess one last comparison that I want to bring up the way that I've heard it is that these like MetaPhy Masterclasses are essentially like an article you get a pre prepared, um, presentation. Um, and it's an article, but it's like, it's even longer, right? Like it's an hour worth of content, um, that's like verbally given. So, so you just pay for like a lot of pre written content. And I think, I think there's a real argument that like articles for some people and like, you know, paying for a subscription to PokeBeach or something like that, and just getting access to tons of like pre written content like that, Has more value than like session with somebody for like an hour, two hours, however long? Um, Yeah. I, I it's, I, I think it's good. I've always been a fan of articles in that kind of like pre-written, uh, or prepared content.

Brent: 11:57

That's what I was about to say. I feel like I read an article that takes them 10 minutes. And that's why I subscribe to Six Prizes for 12 a month and read 15 articles.

Liam: 12:12

Yeah.

Brent: 12:14

Business move.

Cam: 12:15

the lazy article because you don't need to write as much, you can just make like a slideshow and then talk about It's a lot harder to write about sounds competent,

Brent: 12:24

Uh, you know, so, uh, um, we don't talk about this on the podcast, but I work at Amazon, and at Amazon, they have this big thing, like part of the Amazon nonsense is there's no PowerPoint slides, because they're like, uh, doing a presentation with PowerPoint slides is intellectually lazy, so you have to write, like, an essay. And then, like, the way they do it is the first 20 minutes of the meeting, it's just dead silence, people read the essay, and then we spend like 30 minutes discussing the essay. they're like, they're like, people, people with PowerPoint. are cheesing. Ha ha, ha ha

Cam: 13:00

players find my PowerPoint. this

Brent: 13:03

uh, uh,

Cam: 13:04

what this is.

Brent: 13:05

exactly, exactly, so I, I hear that and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's exactly what Jeff Bezos is talking about. go. Alright, um, I'm interested in talking more about coaching, but we got a lot to talk about today. let's talk about, this was really interesting, and, uh, um, Fed into some interesting thinking for me. Connor Fenton tweets, I went and did some digging on stream matches and results of those games. My initial thoughts are wow, best of 3 is a joke. The player who lost game 1 won the match on stream 7 times out of 102 Swiss rounds streamed this season. Game 3 102 matches as well. So there were 26 ties, out of 102 times game 1 was lost. Winner wins the whole thing, um, and only seven times did the Game 1 loser, er, Game 1 winner ever, uh, actually lose the game, because only 17 times did Game 3 ever if you say, uh, uh, Game 1 winner lost seven times out of 17 times, Like, there you're like, oh it's like kinda 50 50, it's kinda 50 50, but like, game three never finishes, right? Less than 20 percent of the time. Does that make you feel differently at all about whether or not we have best of Yeah,

Kaden: 14:27

Well, I think, part of the question that I would immediately ask is, um, like, looking And that's it for this dataset, which is, I think, all the regionals last year. Um,

Brent: 14:36

all the

Kaden: 14:36

you know, my immediate, oh, this year, this year? My immediate question is, like, is this a meta thing? Like, it might be that our, our games are just going on much longer now, in which case Game threes don't actually happen. However, that might not always be the case, which is Well, okay, let me preface it by saying this. I think that if, you know, with this type of trend, in this type of case, I would absolutely advocate for getting rid of best of three, and maybe even potentially, like, moving to a best of one, as much as people hate best of one. However And then just run more throughout the day. I think I've actually talked about this on the pod advocated for having, um, many more rounds, but best of one. Um, However, I don't know, and I, I, I think that's the right move. However, I can see an argument being made where, like, this is a meta dependent thing. The reason why we're not finishing Game 3s is just because long due to, like, single prize decks like Garde or whatnot. Um, And

Cam: 15:40

Um, so I think it's Part of it is, um, Liam and I have talked about this a lot, because Ancient Box is a deck that tries to 1 0

Liam: 15:50

my god, he's filthy! He's disgusting! He's shameless with it, bro.

Cam: 15:56

I mean, judges have watched me play. But the thing is, the fact of the matter is, whatever it. is, is like, this is something that you can abuse in this system. Um, and play to it. Once you get to a certain point of skill level, um, because it's just

Liam: 16:12

Yeah, if you're not playing to it, you're just trolling. Like, being clock aware is not, it's not a fault of the player. You're not being like morally disgusting by like, Oh man, if I don't bench a two prizer, we've hit time and you have three prizes. You're gonna lose. Like, that's not on you for recognizing that that is the case. Even though you could be like, in a normal game, the only way you win is by hitting with a two prizer or something. Like Recognizing the situation is not, is not a fault on the player. It's, you don't have an obligation to basically just chuck the game when the time situation gives you a win.

Cam: 16:45

and I built that way, and I think you could build it in a way Um, I like Star Wars, um, current method. I think it's the way, um, of three, but a tie is a double loss. Um, And so I think it disincentivizes trying to even, trying to even tie and make sure that there is Uh, a winner and a loser, and it was kind of interesting, I mean, we had like a 30 person and the top cut ended up being flat, um, like a pretty even cut anyways, out, uh, just everyone, no one had any ties, we couldn't ID, um, and so you can kind of build this system that way to disincentivize it. But right now, it's just, it's a necessity, like, it's gonna be played in two, and it's something that's just gonna happen, unless you're super aware

Kaden: 17:40

don't see a world Where Pokemon though, um, in part because of lower age divisions. Where, um, of is a system that is heavily, heavily encouraging gentlemen's agreements and, um, other deciding a match, whether it be, of course, you'll get many people um, probably a dramatic increase in the amount of people trying to decide games via coin flip, um, and I don't think, I don't think that Pokemon would want to have that sort of environment Thanks. Around the games, in particular for the lower have, um, you know, I can absolutely imagine, um, Gentleman's were already an absolute nightmare in lower age divisions, and I can only if a tie is a double loss.

Brent: 18:24

I just can't imagine how gentlemen's in lower divisions, like, people feel good about how that goes, you know?

Liam: 18:32

I don't hate the system. I think it's, I think the time rules are fine. There's like pretty adequate time, honestly, if you factor it into your preparation. Like, of course you can get burned by it if you decide to play a deck that does get burned by it, but if you, if you play well, you're And you're clock aware before the event, let that factor into your deck choice. avoid ties, especially when you, like, unwanted ties. Um, but I think, of uh, I've been looking into the chess world recently as part of my performance optimization journey. Um, And, in my, in my search throughout the chess world, part of their, I, I, you know, I look at their tournament routines, and their tournament routines, are so wonderful and amazing because guess what they get to do like 10 day events and they play like one match a day And you know it's chess so it's like six hours But dude that is the most amazing thing in the world imagine if we were able to stretch Pokemon events and now of course the Reason they do this is because there's like a million But what if we put that in Pokemon, bro? That would be a wonderful idea. Um, You know, they all go out to like you know, Switzerland they have like a 10 day vacation, But it's not really vacation'cause they're locked in the whole time. Um, but

Brent: 19:47

If you, if you win everyone has to sign up for your masterclass, they double the prize pools.

Liam: 19:51

Like

Kaden: 19:52

I promise you, do not put that take on Twitter. Um, Because unlike your previous take, this, this might genuinely be an elitist take.

Brent: 20:01

Kayden, are you aware that Liam's off Twitter right

Liam: 20:04

Yeah, man,

Cam: 20:04

And the

Kaden: 20:05

I am, I am, aware. I did happen to see that.

Brent: 20:08

Did you notice how quiet the internet's been?

Kaden: 20:12

great, it's great. Uh, but I, I think,

Cam: 20:16

thing is, it's like, a top Pokemon player finds out about, like, resting, like, NBA superstar, like, yeah, you know what, actually, I don't really wanna play more than, Five rounds in a day, dude. Let me lock in once a day.

Liam: 20:30

yeah. No, no. But what, what it would, what it would let you do is. It would let you extend the amount of time in each round, like, we could have, like, 75 minute best of three rounds, stretch it over the course of multiple days, and, yes, of course, if it were an open event, that'd be unrealistic for many players. This would be for, you know, top players only, and the prize pool would be lit. Like, you're easily compensated for all your time off. It's place is getting like a hundred bands or something, you know, like, it's, uh, like, whatever, man. Like, you're making dough. That would be, that would be like the most lit event of all time. Every round is streamed. It's just absolute legends going at it every single oh my god. Oh my god. Set a date for regional championships, bro.

Brent: 21:17

This is, this is the world championship Liam dreams of,

Liam: 21:20

mean, I mean, it would, it would be the littiest thing ever, bro. Um, That would, that would be just so lit. So, so lit.

Cam: 21:29

Or you could just be better at being aware of the clock. It is something

Liam: 21:34

I mean, no, yeah, I don't issue.

Cam: 21:37

people who are attending their first regionals, Um, which I've coached some people like that who have asked about it, and I say that's the biggest thing I tell them every single time is best of three. You don't practice it enough, um, and if you don't practice it enough, you are not going to be aware of it to start tying a lot, and that's usually what happens. Um, And so it's just something that they, like, people need to be more aware about. Leading into the regionals, and it's a big jump going from just locals to major events because typically you don't get a chance to practice best of three unless you're making top cut at your have that.

Liam: 22:17

The other thing about stretching out time that I think is really good is one of the biggest things of Pokemon right now is the amount of pressure you have to make a play. Like, you have about 10 seconds to think out, like, the entire outcome of a game, when you're trying to determine the impact of your plays, and that's, that leads to some, like, really questionable decisions, and I think it, it takes emphasis off of, like, thinking, in that it places more emphasis on preparation, because finding something on the fly, when you only have 10 seconds, is much harder than something in, like, chess, where players are allowed to spend, like, 10, 20, 30 minutes on a move reasonably, easily. And like, you know, you see the highest quality chess played, there's very few blunders, like, whereas there's, you know, you have to blitz everything out, like, almost instantly, um, well, once it's your turn, and it's a lower

Brent: 23:10

thought you were going the other way with this, because I, like, in chess, like, you got a chess clock, and, like, the only person, if you want to spend 20 minutes looking at a position, the only person you heard is yourself.

Liam: 23:21

I, I mean, that's, you have more time allocated though, like, you can spend 20 minutes and it's not like, Going to like massively hurt your clock. Well, I mean it kind of you can't spend 20 minutes every single move, but like

Brent: 23:34

hurts a lot.

Liam: 23:35

You you have a lot more time To think about your moves I mean this man the current the current time system that actually the most Cooked part of the current time system is that like some players feel entitled to To spend 35, 40 minutes on the clock just because they're playing a deck that has a lot of actions per minute? Like, anytime you like, talk about a time system change like that, they're like, Bro, what about the Gardevoir players who like, have to spend 30 minutes? They have to. They have to spend it. Because their deck requires it. Like, you're just cooked! There's no reason

Brent: 24:10

always felt

Liam: 24:11

time than your opponent.

Brent: 24:12

I've always felt like, uh, the argument, every argument against the chess clock is a terrible argument, right?

Liam: 24:18

Well, I mean, the best argument I've whose clock is burning? That's that's a pretty good argument. I, think

Kaden: 24:28

uh, I, you present your deck for a cut, and I pick it up and start shuffling. Is that burning my

Liam: 24:33

mean,

Cam: 24:34

It's burning my clock.

Kaden: 24:38

I mean, I agree. I, I, I just, it would be a little awkward in a game, like, it's way easier in a game like chess, like, either I'm doing stuff, or you're doing stuff, um,

Liam: 24:50

we're like

Kaden: 24:50

I think, I, I absolutely, I, I think a chess, chess clocks would be bigger argument against in my eyes at least, is, um, the, um, Sort of, I don't know, logistical, logistical reasons of, like, getting, getting chess clocks at every single table.

Cam: 25:09

big thing is that Pokemon is supposedly taking over next year, so if Pokemon wanted to, they could because they have a much

Kaden: 25:18

Oh, like they're taking over regionals?

Cam: 25:20

Yes. Um,

Kaden: 25:23

hear about this. This is, actually, this is a big change. Okay,

Cam: 25:27

Um, so they do have the pockets to spend the money needed, uh, if they want to.

Liam: 25:33

They don't want to spend no money in the competitive scene bro, they're stingy about that man,

Cam: 25:37

Let's see.

Liam: 25:38

it's insane work

Kaden: 25:40

well, that's a, this is something that's actually kind of, I mean, we've talked about this many times. This has shifted. I don't think we can say this anymore about Pokemon. This was true, this was true a few years ago. I don't think, I don't think they're actually stingy

Cam: 25:51

they reali like, a lot has changed since the pandemic, and I think for them that they know they can make a lot of

Liam: 25:58

If they're not stinchy, give me my event. Give me the 5, 10 days in the middle of nowhere on some like private island

Cam: 26:05

Ha

Liam: 26:05

10 billion dollars in prize pools. Give it to me, give

Brent: 26:09

I was just about to say, I think the reason they're not stingy is because Pokemon Center's a bag. So you gotta, you gotta give them their Pokemon Center if you want to do that. It's gotta be at a major location with, with, uh, you know, 5, 000 people there. Uh, most of them, uh, competing in one way or another. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Kaden: 26:29

I mean, we've, we've, we can go on this, This topic

Liam: 26:32

is why Pokemon's a joke and chess the event, the intellectual event

Kaden: 26:36

Okay, that's absolutely not the reason, but, um, I, like, imagine, imagine a world, imagine a world where, like, worlds, scrap the way Worlds worlds is an invitational event. There are, um, 16 invited to worlds based on prior performance. Um, Say there are even 16 throughout the year. The winner of each gets to go to Worlds, and, happens in, like, New York, um, they rent out part of the New York Convention Center, a bunch of side events, massive Pokemon Center, and it's like a five day event.

Brent: 27:19

Yeah, this is the, this is the world's I've been saying, I, I feel like post coming out of London and Tokyo, I know they've got a couple of locations locked in, but they had to be thinking wow, this London thing and this Tokyo thing were so crazy, the Javits Center is next. Let's freaking go.

Kaden: 27:36

It's just so expensive for, like, they get, frankly, very little bonus given how expensive it is.

Brent: 27:43

Well, I mean, I, like, I mean, you haven't heard much New York City hotel rooms cost. Like,

Kaden: 27:49

True.

Brent: 27:51

like, they'll be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up, like, the last tournament I went to, I spent, you know, 300 for the whole thing, and for this tournament, 300 gets me a hotel room three hours away. For one thing. Alright, guys, let's talk about Stockholm second. We, we, we do have a lot to cover here. And, and, uh, too much entertainment. Did Stockholm change how anybody thought about anything?

Liam: 28:23

Azul might be the GOAT, bro. No, that's Cap. Tortoise him!

Cam: 28:27

Oh,

Liam: 28:31

regional wins. pretty big accomplishment, right? I think that ties for first all time. Um, He's tough for real. He's tough for real. And, he said he was gonna win on the podcast Oh nah, he's tough! He actually is for that, bro. Um, So you know, respect for respect is due. Azul is really like that, bro. He is really like that. Also Tord is like that, like the fact that nobody even talks about Tord top 4 ing as like a significant event for him because like he's just that good and this is exactly what I'm talking about, it's winning the event or bust. Nobody, nobody talks about Tord's top 4's when they're talking about the GOAT argument, it's win or bust, bro. So, you know, top 4's cooked. Top 2 is cooked. You gotta win it, bro. You gotta win it.

Kaden: 29:15

So I have a question, Liam, that I think, you know, a lot of people are, a lot of people are wondering. Do you think that Tord's Zard list was inspired or derived from your list that you played at Indie, came to that separately?

Brent: 29:28

is a great question.

Liam: 29:30

I, I don't know. Um, but I mean Probably not. Maybe. It doesn't really matter though. No matter if it was inspired, I can't take credit for it because he made the list a lot better. it's not even my, my ideas at this point. It's just toward, towards actually just him. Um, and yeah, he, and he, He definitely had the idea beforehand. Um, he probably had the idea like as soon as the, the format came out. Like, he's actually like 15 million years ahead of every other Pokemon player. So yeah, no. Nah, this was just something he's, he felt like running. He, he, he'd been cooking up, cooking it up for

Brent: 30:11

So, uh, um, what about, what about the Sander list, Liam? Cam, any, any comments on, on Sander? Sander makes a return, immediately top 16s, after like not playing Pokemon for like a year.

Cam: 30:22

I'm

Liam: 30:22

Nah, bro, he brought a similar list to his last event. And he, he like, he brought, he brought a similar list to EYC, it was the the Pidgeot, but it's basically all the same ideas, he's just uh, the Lie part has synergy with the Basin and the Entei, um, and it makes the Entei a little better, it's, I Lie part idea is cool because the Pidgeot, you never get a head on the Pal Pad Penny, Um, like, you want to get the PALPADS into your hand, or like the pennies into your hand to free up quick searches because you can't If you don't your hand, you basically burn all your pennies and you have to go PALPAD and you can't penny, on that turn. to try to get ahead and draw some cards, maybe draw into a penny, draw into a PALPAD, whatever. Um, So the Live part's like, pretty cool, but it's also Like, it's a it's an easy prize, um, makes you a bit more vulnerable to Greninja and stuff, so.

Brent: 31:14

Any other, any other big, uh, Stockholm conclusions? Would you say Azul has the best process, or is winning just an opportunity. to tweet about Pokemon? Willpower.

Kaden: 31:24

Oh, I

Brent: 31:25

that, apparently,

Kaden: 31:26

just an opportunity. I don't,

Cam: 31:27

wrong when you

Kaden: 31:28

has a good process.

Brent: 31:29

everybody tweets about willpower after they win, that's what I heard. Or is it before they win I'm confused.

Cam: 31:34

you're just the god almighty whenever you win and you can say whatever you want

Brent: 31:39

Yeah,

Cam: 31:39

until the next regional.

Brent: 31:41

That's the real truth right there.

Cam: 31:44

You can do no wrong until the next regional. Right? Right, Liam?

Liam: 31:50

I mean,

Cam: 31:51

And sometimes the

Liam: 31:51

I wish that was true, but that's exactly what Jake was telling me, bro, like, you know, we always be getting into it, we're just talking about whatever and stuff, but for like the weeks between Orlando and Indie, he was like, man, I know what I usually say, but I just can't say it because, you know, You can always I I, know what I'm talking about, you don't! I mean, I, I would never do that, Of course, Um, but,

Brent: 32:20

Alright, guys, um, we got 30 minutes, should we try and grind little set review? Alright. Let's, uh, let's, let's do it. Who, who here, uh, uh, who here's been looking at this set the most closely? Cam, alright, Cam, you're, you're, you're

Cam: 32:40

either, it's either, I don't know how If he's as locked in as but I've looked at it, uh, a bit. Um,

Brent: 32:49

I, I, I think historically Mike has gone through, like, type by type, and, and, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna put you in charge of being Mike for, for the pod. Yeah,

Cam: 33:04

EX. Um, it's probably not like a super good card. Um, But it is kind of interesting. 1 EX grass type. Um, It's attack is One colorless, and then you do two damage counters to one of your opponent's Pokemon for each Grass energy in your Discord pile. Probably gonna be Bad, but I've played it with Goldango played against it with Goldango paired with it. It's kind of an interesting, um, card that could potentially a place at some not doing damage. Um, so it gets around Manaphy, um, you know. But still one of, probably on one of the lower end of cards. And that's probably the only grass card that I've played. Seems super good. I don't know if anyone has any crazy thoughts

Kaden: 33:57

like Grass, Grass has been bad for a long time. I don't know.

Liam: 34:00

there's a lot of cool cards. Um, there's, uh, I guess the second most impactful is probably the, the Wacky. That card's insane.

Cam: 34:10

think card is good.

Liam: 34:12

It lets you search, as long as Pokemon with a certain ability, like Festival Grounds or something, Festival Lead you can search your deck for a card once per turn, it's stage one, um, and there's one retreat Pokemon that have the Festival Lead um, so yeah, it's just a whole entire engine. Um, good. The Grookey has 70 HP, so it doesn't get Dragapulted, be searched with Poffin. Card seems lit. Um, the other grass type that seems pretty cool is the, the Ogre Pawn. Um, It's, I think it's somewhat overrated as an attacker. Card looks terrible as an attacker, but it's, I always think cards like this and like Radiant into draw. are, are super valuable. Um, It lets you play energy counts while staying consistent. That's a valuable thing to do. Um, so that card's interesting. And then

Kaden: 35:07

you think that the Thwackey will become a new control engine?

Liam: 35:13

I mean, no, I like, it's a, it's a cool engine. I don't know if it's going to be relevant or not.

Cam: 35:20

It'll be cool engine for a Liam style control deck, which, uh, we'll see how good it does. But I think, like, Pidgeot is probably better, but I do see why it is interesting. It's a Pidgeot ability on a non stage 2.

Liam: 35:37

And I mean, you can chain it. Like if you get, like, Poffin, Poffin turn one, this is obviously ideal, but you basically get four of the stage one get to search four of any card for the rest of the game. Um, It's pretty powerful. It takes up a lot of bench space, of course, if you're going to go that hard, but the ability to get more than one out, like that's one of the biggest drawbacks on the Pidgeot engine right now, is that you can't play high Pidgeot lines. Well, you can, but

Kaden: 36:06

Alright, fire types?

Cam: 36:08

Um I don't think there are any fire from this set. Um, I mean, I think there's Infernape is cool. Um, Stage 2, once during your turn you may attach a basic fire energy and a one of each from your hand to your Pokémon Um, You know, you do have Earthen Vessel now, um, but this card is probably cooler in practice, or in theory, than in practice. Outside of that, I don't really think any of the other fire cards are

Liam: 36:42

I think the Chandler is like super lit.

Cam: 36:45

It's okay, another fringe card, but yes, it is kind of interesting, but not super fringe.

Liam: 36:51

yeah, that card is super lit.

Cam: 36:54

It makes each player draw a card,

Liam: 36:57

Yeah,

Cam: 36:57

once a turn, which is interesting for wet control than mill. Trying to deck a opponent out, is that

Liam: 37:04

has a lot of synergy with Airy. Um, cool engine. And Luxray. It's

Kaden: 37:15

ever see any play as a stage 2, but it

Liam: 37:17

also a one energy. That removes a Pokemon if they have, uh, you know, a solid hand size, like 10 cards in hand. That's not, it's not a lot if you have some Chandelure out and hit for 300. That's pretty good.

Cam: 37:34

Oh boy,

Kaden: 37:35

Well, I look forward to seeing your,

Cam: 37:37

forward to looking to your, see your Chandelure Thwackey deck, um, at the next, at the next event. But no, I don't think, I don't, I just don't like the masks. I just don't think they're very strong. Maybe I end up being wrong about it. a good fire type. Water has uh A couple, interesting card in my opinion, which is Froslass, which is, um, in between turns, a damage counter on each of your stacks, um, oh, with an ability, so both yours and your opponent's. So kind of like Shrine of Punishment, um, which did it for GXs, this is for anything with an ability, except for Froslass, it go play like Froslass, Greninja, um, you know, I

Kaden: 38:31

It seems niche, it seems very meta dependent, like, this may see some play, depending on how the meta shakes up, if it's important for some good in and of itself.

Liam: 38:43

um, the other, there's a bunch of other strong waters, bro. Uh,

Cam: 38:48

Okay.

Liam: 38:49

I guess I'll, I'll start at the top. The first one that seems good is the Goldeen. It's of course the one with synergy that has. With the Thwackey, it has

Cam: 38:57

Oh, is it the one that

Liam: 38:58

but it also has a cool attack. The Festival it attack twice. Yeah, it's a flip for a discard energy, and it lets it attack twice. Um,

Cam: 39:06

card. Yes. It's cool.

Liam: 39:07

yeah, that's pretty cool. The, the second card is the this card's also fringe, but it prevents Turo, it prevents Penny. Um, Cards attached to Pokemon in play can't be put into their hand. Um, Situationally good. The other card

Brent: 39:23

deck Liam was planning to play with that Melodic. It's Mortal Lock.

Liam: 39:27

percent CPlay over its lifetime, uh, Theon. Um, for one colorless, It has 70 Poffinable. Uh, it puts a supporter from discarding to hand. It's really good recursion, it's flexible. While Regieleki is in format, it of course won't CPlay, probably. like, somewhat relevant, but after Regieleki rotates, is um, this is pretty good. It's a good recursion, it's a powerful effect. Uh, it's on a basic. And then, lastly, I can't believe you didn't bring this up. This is like, maybe one of the most meta relevant

Cam: 39:59

Ex

Liam: 40:02

Pawn. Um,

Cam: 40:03

or the water one,

Liam: 40:05

yeah, it's, uh, this deck is, er, this card basically makes I think. Like, 100 active, 120 snipe, um, it does, 2 colorless, but it can be powered up with the Archeops And the new Rainbow Energy Um, and it the Rainbow Energy as well, which prevents you from being like, cooked shuffles it into deck, uh, to get the extra 120 damage. Uh, Sniping is, is one of the, like, the most effects in, in Pokemon. It's defined the meta for like, the last two years, This is basically just Greninja. Um, you just cook people's bench. Uh, It lets you win on turn two. It also has a retreat lock for one, one colorless, which is pretty good. It's the highest HP basic with a retreat lock in standard right now. At you put a Hero's Cape on it and it like, drastically increases the um, the retreat locking capabilities of decks like Pidgeot and stuff. Pretty meta relevant card. I actually, yeah, it's

Kaden: 41:04

Yeah, this card reads to be, um, pretty good to me. I mean, especially, the meta will shake up, but there have definitely been in the past year times where Um, you know, we saw some decks running, running them all while uh, the Retreat Lock capability. And while this does, unfortunately, do 20 damage, um, I still, I still

Cam: 41:24

stops it.

Kaden: 41:26

Hmm?

Liam: 41:26

Yeah, DT reduces it down.

Cam: 41:28

so

Kaden: 41:28

Oh, that's true. You're right. You're right. This card's gas. This card is absolutely heat.

Cam: 41:35

Palin I think good unfortunately,

Liam: 41:38

yeah, Uh,

Cam: 41:39

especially when, uh, ride-on is a good deck in the format.

Liam: 41:43

yeah, it doesn't seem terrible, but I think there's always going to be better decks to play. It's just, there's not a lot of upside, I think.

Cam: 41:53

Yeah, and I think, um, I'm right on coming back, but just make it to what it was hard to play a bad, that, um, takes a while to set

Liam: 42:02

For sure.

Cam: 42:05

Um, past that, Unless, uh, Liam has Um, Luxray's kind of interesting. Um, I think mainly for its are alright, But it's mainly It is a stage two. Um, seen, uh, I mean, once again, everything can be good in Uh, a city league that was won by Maridon Luxray, um, and the Luxray, the, for a 120 damage. Your opponent reveals their hand and then, um, you choose a card and that's interesting um, for uh, for, Um, a DT, uh, for two colorless energy.

Kaden: 42:45

Wait, Iron Thorns is heat. I'm sorry to interject. I haven't looked, I have, I have not looked through the setlist at all. This is purely my first impressions. This card's crazy. Is it not? I know, I know there was like, Future Box was like, kind of a thing, but kind of make it at least decently viable?

Liam: 43:02

is really good. Well, TurboHance. Um, Because of the active restriction, the main way, or like, one way that this was being played to like some success is basically just like Wailord, they just throw this active, they play 4 hammers, bunch of enhanced hammer that comes out in the set as well, um, and just sit there. But, because it only hits Rulebox, right?

Cam: 43:27

the issues like, um,

Liam: 43:30

it's very targeted, right?

Cam: 43:31

yeah, Dragapult just uses Dracloak's fine. Lost Box can use Lost Box abilities just fine. Um, I know that people have um, or I've heard people talking about playing, um, a Fluttermane Charizard or Lugia, or a Clefki, and that way you can turn off its ability, um, and then you can use your abilities. To like, set up, and then you beat Iron Thorns from there if it's actually a real deck.

Liam: 43:58

yeah, yeah.

Cam: 44:00

okay.

Liam: 44:01

It's a, it'll be a good card. Um, Or like, never, never meta dominant because it's, there's too much stuff that go around it, but like, always be there, and, and could potentially catch people, like, with their pants down. Um, At random events throughout its lifetime.

Cam: 44:21

Any other electric types? Other

Liam: 44:25

the Morpeko is cool, uh, because of Moridon being in format, pretty much no lightning cards that have good engines right now, and this card's not great, but, it's always worth looking at the, the lightnings that give you access to draw because that's, uh, that's such a strong engine. It turns, like, nest balls into, like, basically a full over the course of two turns, and if that setup can turn into card mean, you'd see them ride on engine in, like, a lot more decks. Um, Yeah.

Brent: 44:53

It definitely seems like the kind of card that you're like, Oh, I can see a control player playing this, but it's not quite good enough. You know?

Liam: 44:59

discarding cards is not, not super valuable. You want them in your hand. Um, We already have, like, the Great Tusky X, if you want to discard cards. And Mass and the V Unions are no longer a thing, so it's, there's not a lot of upside to it. But, I mean, it's cool.

Cam: 45:19

than that, I don't

Liam: 45:20

with the Generator.

Cam: 45:22

think good electric types. I mean,

Liam: 45:24

Yeah.

Cam: 45:25

other fringe ones. I think the The big one is Monkey Dory, um, which is a basic with 110 HP. Its ability reads, if this Pokemon has any dark energy attached, you may use this ability once during your turn, move up to three of your Pokemon to one of your opponent's Pokemon. Um, It's kind of seeing play potentially in two decks, one being Blissey EX, which we haven't talked about yet, which we probably list type, but for watching! Um, there's a way to, um, counter Dragapult, um, potentially your attackers, like, like, for? Uh, a little bit at times, um, so yeah, Monkey Dory, I think it's pretty good.

Liam: 46:11

Yeah, that card's pretty insane, I think. Yeah, that card's really good. There's a lot of good psychics, though, I think. The first, the first of the Alakazam, going top to bottom, I think it's It's a stage two, of course, which makes it hard, but Even imagine a world where if you're able to get damage on board, um, you can go, like, Roxanne, Strange Hack, and what it does is it confuses damage counters, and then you can use it to target engines while disabling active, um, which gives it a lot of synergy with cards like Iono and Roxanne, and the ability to take out engines while an attacker. Uh, is, is really, really powerful. Um, It's a lot investment, and it takes preparation, so I'm not sure if it's that good, especially in a format with tarot, but it's, uh, it's a cool effect. The, the second card that's pretty cool is the Forges, which does, during your turn, you can flip a coin. And gust and it confuses Um, so it's kind of like venosa, uh, PGO, but, uh, confusion's a better status effect, uh, than sleep. So I think that curve's pretty cool. Any way you can like passively make progress like that, like if you can get this thing to stick on think you, you, you usually should be able to win. Um, but it's, it's not, it's not great. Uh, Being on a flip.

Cam: 47:40

Frigirath is kind of interesting, as an actually interesting card I think, um, it's a Stage 1. It has an attack for attack does 40 damage for each stage 1 you have in play. Um, and so, it could like a solid amount as a 1

Liam: 47:59

for a DTE.

Cam: 48:00

uh, since you have Um, and there's a lot stage 1 support right now. Drac, Dracloak, um, Leipard, Barrel. Um, you can uh, Rapsca if you wanted to for the Dragonport matchup, which is just another stage one.

Liam: 48:20

Yeah,

Brent: 48:22

I mean, it combos well,

Liam: 48:23

it's

Brent: 48:24

well, with like the buddy poffin nonsense. Like, you just run four buddies and you're like, We're just gonna set up a bunch of stage ones, here we go, right? Like, you're setting up stage ones. Both the Monkey Dory and the, um, uh, Uh, Florges are interesting because those kind of like passive bench sitters that are just like super annoying every turn. Nobody likes that.

Liam: 48:49

yeah.

Brent: 48:50

You're, you're like, you're like it's a whole different attacker on the bench every turn until I gust it and kill it.

Liam: 48:55

I also think the Screentail EX is pretty interesting. like, somewhat disgusting. Uh, Anytime you can go that fast, like, or you delay your opponent one turn and then just like blitz them down or something is pretty good, I think. Like, you could, you could hit like, if you hit this turn two, or turn one, It opens you up for like, turn 2 ninja, and you get to like, ever plays a supporter. That's like, pretty good. Um, I mean, cards like that are always, they're like, pretty toxic. And then it's a guaranteed energy discard.

Cam: 49:36

it could be it could be a broken card. It might be too much of an investment as a 190 HP 2 prizer,

Liam: 49:44

fast after you use it for sure.

Cam: 49:46

it definitely, um,

Liam: 49:49

Yeah, I mean, the card's like, super toxic. Um, Supporter looks pretty cool, I think. Um, It hits 30 for each energy basic with 120 HP, so you can get like 5 energy on it with Guardi. Um, And then if you attach like a dark energy, you're taking out like Baxes and its ability is, if it has a dark energy attached, um, it's pretty cool. Whenever it takes damage, you flip a coin and then prevent that damage if it's heads. Um, So like, it seems like a pretty annoying wall in Guardi, like somewhat like a buff Mimikyu, in that like, you just really doesn't want to hit into it, and it's able to like take out stuff on the bench. Um,

Cam: 50:33

play, you know, Earthen Vessels and Dark Energies in Guardian, and play both

Liam: 50:37

yeah, yeah, and the, the Monkey Dory has a lot of synergy with the Guardi as well, so like, interesting attacker.

Cam: 50:45

Um,

Kaden: 50:45

I've got a tip, um, I've gotta go, I've gotta go, I have a call in ten

Liam: 50:51

Hmm,

Cam: 50:52

okay. Good to see you, Caden.

Brent: 50:55

call it and we'll do the rest of the set review next week. We've 56 minutes.

Liam: 51:00

Yeah, sounds good.

Brent: 51:02

Guys, the Jon Pals are our outro, Caden was here for the entire pod, because we're calling it. That's how we do it guys. It's incredible, the contribution. Week in, week out. We are rapidly driving towards Los Angeles. When is Los Angeles?

Liam: 51:19

This weekend.

Brent: 51:20

This weekend.

Cam: 51:22

No, Two weeks.

Brent: 51:23

weeks. Alright, next weekend, LA preview for Cam,

Liam: 53:21

Yes, yes,