Brent: 0:05

So, I mean, I know, I know when Marvel Snap was first launched, we spent, we spent a lot of time, like, grinding Marvel Snap on the pod. How much time do we need to devote to Star Wars on this pod for people who, like, I mean, I assume, All the serious Pokemon people that are listening must be hearing about this and thinking, should I be dabbling? Like, do they need enough information to dabble? I don't know. Are there already Star Wars podcasts?

Cameron: 0:36

ah, there is one. There's not many though.

Kaden: 0:40

I, I feel like it's worth just at least, you know, mentioning it's, it's game, it's, you know, it exists having, it's a, it's good. Worth checking out.

Cameron: 0:52

parents that listen to Trashalanch that live in Seattle said, Oh, it's not surprising that you brought up Star Wars, like, almost immediately, Cameron. I

Brent: 1:01

mean, when you're talking about things that are on the minds of Pokemon players, here, here, I mean, we literally just said, everybody here is like, oh yeah, yeah, we're on that, we're on that.

Liam: 1:14

I will say,

Kaden: 1:14

because of. You

Liam: 1:16

Yeah. Gooken.

Kaden: 1:17

We tried it because of I've tried it because of you guys.

Brent: 1:21

There you go. That's

Kaden: 1:22

were you what were you gonna

Liam: 1:23

yeah, the, the warning I wanted to give everyone is like, if you actually want to be like competitive and good at Pokemon, you can't dabble in other things, like you have to commit to Pokemon.

Brent: 1:35

Did you just curse Cam? What kind of talk is that?

Mike: 1:38

don't know how true

Liam: 1:39

be honest.

Mike: 1:40

Brent, Brent, Brent Tonneson. I mean, I mean, there's always going to be outliers and exceptions to that, I

Liam: 1:46

there's some like absolute freaks who like don't even play the game and are still somehow like really good, but

Mike: 1:51

yeah. But like Brent, like Tonneson was rank one Hearthstone on multiple servers while also like winning regional championships in Pokemon. So that's crazy.

Liam: 2:03

it doesn't make any sense, but I mean,

Cameron: 2:06

Pokemon in a month, and I just gave the hands to Oh, and Dalgarde and Polaris, who are supposedly the best two non masters in the world. Sorry, that's

Kaden: 2:14

be

Cameron: 2:14

is what it is.

Brent: 2:15

You're

Kaden: 2:15

two non masters.

Cameron: 2:18

Those Pokemon puzzles are keeping me, you know, up to par, you know, in the meantime.

Kaden: 2:23

Similarly, I have not touched Pokemon in two months.

Cameron: 2:27

Heheheheh! Oh,

Kaden: 2:28

been a hot minute. It's been a hot minute, but.

Liam: 2:31

Yep.

Mike: 2:32

Are you going to Vancouver, kiddin

Kaden: 2:34

I'm not. I am going to be at NAIC outside of NAIC. No idea. I don't know. College is becoming more and more of just a draw on focus.

Mike: 2:46

Sure, sure.

Brent: 2:49

Are tickets still available for Vancouver? Is Vancouver sold out?

Liam: 2:53

Sold out.

Brent: 2:53

Sold out? Alright. I know it's smaller than some of the other tournaments, but also sold out, right? That's wild.

Mike: 2:59

They did have they did have, like, a third wave recently, but, but yeah, definitely sold out. Yeah. Caden, the one in Indianapolis might be close enough for you. I don't know. I don't know if that lines up, though. You might be done with school by then.

Kaden: 3:14

I'm not,

Mike: 3:15

Sure,

Kaden: 3:16

and I've thought about whether or not, I think, the question isn't, the question is more so do I want to go to a Pokemon tournament and dedicate the time to test and practice and get ready and

Liam: 3:31

No, he

Kaden: 3:31

is that something I want to focus on? during college. And, that is currently I'm leaning no.

Cameron: 3:40

Just, just, just play generators. Not much testing needed. That's

Kaden: 3:45

True.

Cameron: 3:46

do.

Kaden: 3:47

There's also the I can just go and then play Kepler. So. I don't know. It's, Indianapolis is up in the air, but other than that.

Brent: 3:58

I mean, Liam's going, and he's staying with your dad. Hahahaha!

Mike: 4:04

Seems like a pretty solid reason to go.

Cameron: 4:07

Someone does. Doesn't want it enough. We already know this, right? Liam

Brent: 4:12

Let's go! Alright! Welcome to the Trash Language Podcast. It's the only podcast about the Pokemon trading card game. It is also one of two podcasts that talks about Star Wars. No other podcasts do that. We give all the people everything they need. amazing. Attendance is 166%. All the times we had low attendance, we're balancing it out right here. Caden is here, Mike is here, Cam is here, Liam is here, I'm here, we're all here, we're also all on Twitter, you can find us, it's not that hard. Guys, it is now, like, we've been screwing around for a while, but we're now like days before Vancouver, and it is real for at least Cam and Liam.

Cameron: 4:58

Yes.

Mike: 4:59

I have a couple friends that are going, been talking through stuff with them. It's been a balance of thinking about the new format while thinking about this format too.

Brent: 5:10

And thinking about Star Wars. So.

Mike: 5:12

Yeah. Yeah.

Brent: 5:18

and Cam, like I know Mike has, Mike had some fun questions, but let's talk about Vancouver and give the people who are like, gearing up to test what they need to hear. What's the play, guys? Let's start with Kayden. Kayden, you know nothing about Pokemon. If you were going to Vancouver, what would you play?

Kaden: 5:37

Rotation has happened, right? This is post rotation?

Cameron: 5:40

No knows nothing. Katie literally knows nothing.

Kaden: 5:45

Okay, then but a new set has come out.

Cameron: 5:48

No

Brent: 5:49

No!

Kaden: 5:49

No, it's same format, it's literally the same format.

Brent: 5:52

it's been the same format for a hundred years. It will,

Kaden: 5:56

So what you're telling me is I can actually say something relevant?

Brent: 6:00

Yes.

Kaden: 6:01

Oh!

Mike: 6:02

still exists.

Brent: 6:03

Amazingly, nothing has, nothing has changed. All the time you've taken off from Pokemon, it's like not a day has passed.

Kaden: 6:10

Amazing. I mean, I don't know, I can't imagine much has changed. If you're an absolute goat at the game, and you're just secretly the best player in the whole world, you should play Guardi. If you're any less than that, you should not play Guardi. If I am always going to be Even though it is objectively not the greatest deck in the world and I have to, I have to guess that for most players the best deck is gonna probably be Lastina or Zard. Do people have thoughts on that take? I, I

Brent: 6:46

are, those are actually acceptable answers!

Mike: 6:49

Yeah, good

Kaden: 6:50

I

Liam: 6:53

I was on this train for a while the like, oh man, Guardi's like the BDIF, secretly, like you just have to know how to play it like perfect, and nobody can play it perfect. I'm completely off that now, Guardi just sucks. Like it doesn't even matter how good you play it, the deck is just trash. You just feed yourself so much cope after every game because you made like one little sequencing error and then you ended up missing like a nine card combo on turn three. And then you're like, oh man, like maybe if I like fix my sequencing and like, you know, go for this line or something, it all works out. But the deck is just, just bad. It's, it's, it's insanely high roll. Like, the deck is no good. Yeah. But yeah, same outcome. Don't, don't play Guardia. It's trash.

Mike: 7:38

I think if I were going, I would probably play Giratina. I've been playing it to all my local stuff. Feels, I mean, it's like the same as it's always been, but feels strong there's, you know, the 57 card list, and then the last couple spots you can kind of do what you want I've tried, like, playing Manaphy, not playing Manaphy, the Tomb, or the Fourth Path I've seen some people talk about Tropius, Tropius seems okay, like is good against one of your harder matchups, which is Roaring Moon, and it's like, Not bad against Charizard, but it kind of sucks everywhere else though So, I don't know, I like Giratina. Just gives me, gives you a chance in every single matchup for sure. Heh heh. Heh heh

Brent: 8:20

Alright, Liam and Cam,

Cameron: 8:23

Liam, you go

Brent: 8:24

is your chance for meta manipulation right here, guys.

Liam: 8:27

mean, yeah, we're in the same spot as last week. Probably should play Moriartyn.

Cameron: 8:30

Yeah.

Liam: 8:31

everything else is like kind of bad. It's not even that Moriartyn's really that good, I think. Okay. It's just, yeah, everything else is, is not good. Raidon's, like, a little bit better than that, I think.

Brent: 8:42

the first question I have, and this is probably the only question I have, and I'll let Mike and Caden ask questions about all the other questions. What are the odds that at the last minute you say, Hey wait, Snorlax literally just was like winning stuff, I should play Snorlax.

Liam: 8:58

I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that.

Cameron: 9:00

I don't know if I believe that, but

Liam: 9:02

yeah, I don't wanna do that. Like, I think You know, I think I kind of fall into the same trap as, like, a lot of people do, of just, like, you know, giving, like, these, like, anti meta controlled decks, whatever, like, a little bit more credence than they actually deserve, because especially when they go slower, like, you know, many players, myself included, don't have a ton of experience with, like you know not going for six prizes and, like, taking these slower games, so, like, you end up Bye bye. Treating, treating their issues differently, and, and I think the biggest one that it comes to is like, consistency. Like, people don't talk about Pidgey's consistency the same way they talk about decks like Chen, Pao, or Guardi, because it's so, it's so obvious when you're playing these like, 3 turn, 4 turn races to 6. When, when your deck is not consistent, when you miss pieces. But like, When you're playing these like slower decks, the game goes like a little bit longer, you like, you know, you rode them once or twice at the start of the game, but like, the deck still has real consistency issues, and like, just like every other deck, it just like, it just misses pieces but it, it seems really good at the start, because like, you know, you, you seem like you're drawing okay, when you get like a rodem or something down, but you just end up like never setting up, always missing pieces, like something weird happens, it's just, that's, you know, I don't know, it has a lot of issues. Like, even though in theory it should beat a lot of stuff, it just doesn't really work out the way you'd like it to a lot of the time. So yeah, I probably wouldn't play that deck. Like, every time I see somebody play it, I want to play it because I just imagine it will go super well, but it doesn't.

Brent: 10:32

I can understand how, like, like, I recognize you don't, maybe you don't, like, you don't test, test as many games with those decks as you do with decks that win the game in three turns, because people won't test with you and because it's painful to test and takes a long time, but I can see how, like, you kind of overlook the consistency issues when you're testing in your brain because you're like, I get that Pidgeot out every time, it'll be fine.

Liam: 10:56

Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit like that, like Yeah, I mean, like, I guess, yeah, I'd just say, like, the deck has, like, the same issues as every other deck right now, I think. It's good in theory, you have winning lines, but you also have losing lines, and those happen, like, a pretty good chunk of the time, just like with every other deck. It's, I don't think it's super strong right now. Not bad, but not super strong.

Brent: 11:25

When you think about, like, picking the deck that you want to play, do you think a lot of people will come with Snorlax, because it did well, or it's a fun deck, or doing that thing is a thing that amuses

Liam: 11:37

Dude, I hope they do. I hope they do. And then, like, yeah, man, I You know, when you think about playing against Snorlax, you think it's good, right? That's what I've just been saying. But it's actually trash. They're like, I'm gonna kill the Pidgey on my turn when they're gonna lose. Like, it's not good. And you know, Of course, I might lose, but I also might lose to Guardi, like, if I, like, mis turn one hands or something, like, but I, you know, I want that, I want them to play that deck. It's a good matchup.

Cameron: 12:08

Yeah, I don't like Pidgeot control either. There's a lot of It's And I don't think it'll be very played at all. I mean, Oranguru control back in the day was probably the strongest control deck we've seen in a long time. And even then, that wasn't A very highly played deck, I don't see, people don't enjoy playing Control most part. The deck is good if it sets up and things go right, but I agree with Liam. And if you plan on making Day 2 and plan on going far, there's a good chance that yes, if you're very well versed with the deck that you can do it, but there will just be times where you hit these situations and you won't always be able to make the most optimal play, especially when you're A little bit fatigued in the mind and I'd rather just keep things easy, so I'm playing Moridon but I do think Mew might be coming around as a decent play for Vancouver. It just seems like you play the Accelgor list I kind of like the 1 1 Accelgor list, but you could also just play Ice Cube and Meloetta, I think that's also a pretty solid play, I just don't think people will respect Mew.

Liam: 13:17

What changed from last week?

Cameron: 13:19

I guess, I mean, I think it's still good even if they have a Spear Tomb. The deck's still really good, it does a lot of good things. It's very consistent for the most part as long as you kind of get At least two Genesects up and I think if you play one more Nixelgore line, you have an a line for Roaring Moon and, or the one prizers, yeah, the one prizers, Ice Cube and Meloetta. You have a line for Roaring Moon slash Charizard, which are probably your two bad matchups, and then, you know, as, if we're all saying that Guardi's bad, well then Mew, Mew, another one of Mew's bad matchups should be fine, and everything else is looking kind of good in terms of Chen Pao Maridon. And all the other decks, Spirit,

Liam: 14:02

Dude, like, all the good matchups aren't even that good. They're not, they're not even that good. They're like, they're so close. Especially, I, I think if you play the Fusion version, like, I think, I think Maraenon's pretty competitive with the, the Fusion version. Like, you're lighter on the paths and like, just, just all the disruption pieces, you're, you're much lighter. That's Much easier from right on.

Cameron: 14:22

I agree, but it's just drawing a lot of cards people not really thinking about it. I don't think, at least not in my local area, I think that's just what make, that's when Muse is the strongest, right? Even though it won, I think it's kind of the control won soon after. And I just don't think people take much credence to the results anyways. People are gonna play what they were gonna play.

Liam: 14:41

Yeah.

Mike: 14:42

I

Cameron: 14:42

stale at this point.

Mike: 14:44

think that's true for sure.

Brent: 14:47

So, so guys, if your goal was to go 6 2 1 day one, would you play a different deck? Because I know, I know Liam, Liam's not, that's not what Liam's trying to do. He picks decks

Liam: 14:57

Yeah, I'm not going to codefin this question. We're not going to entertain this question.

Brent: 15:01

What?

Liam: 15:02

I'm not going to entertain this question. Y'all can answer. Y'all can answer.

Brent: 15:09

I mean, I'm just wondering, like, what other decks are, like, viable choices for players?

Liam: 15:16

Dude, if your goal is to go 6 2 1, go take the whatever wins late night this week, go take that list. Like, that's exactly how you beat bad players and then lose in Day 2 every single round to get top 256. Just go do that.

Brent: 15:29

Right, right, you're just playing a, quote, good deck, and like,

Liam: 15:33

Yeah.

Brent: 15:34

just trying to, yeah, win rounds you should win.

Cameron: 15:38

It depends on which division you're in. I actually think Snorlax Control is pretty good if you're in the juniors or seniors division right now. Probably better so than Masters, in my opinion.

Liam: 15:50

As always, all of my senior takes

Kaden: 15:53

control is just disproportionately better in juniors and seniors.

Liam: 15:58

a little bit, but juniors and seniors are trash. Like, I would just show up with anything.

Mike: 16:03

I assume that's the reason why it's so much better, right?

Kaden: 16:07

I mean, this is the same reason why, you know, like, a majority, a vast majority of my time playing Pokemon was in the lower divisions. And there were two kind of core key rules when thinking about picking decks both for me, for my younger brother, whatever which is one, the, the less linear a deck is, the, like, the harder that deck is for a younger player to play. It's really, really easy. And the best way for younger players to play is if they're given a deck that has a one clear game plan that they're trying to do every game. And this is why I think, honestly, decks like Arceus are really, really good. Because they have, like, a pretty much one clear game plan that you can go for that you, that who knows if you'll win or lose. Sometimes it won't work, but you, it's one clear thing to keep in your head that you can try to execute. Which is way easier. And the thing with Control is that Control just messes up that game plan. And control forces you to think on your feet, and so it will, control will, you know, in many ways force younger players to try and do a skill that they haven't been developing as much. Which is like, kind of improv ing through your game, and managing resources in a way that they haven't been Probably haven't had to do before. This is why, you know, I won a regionals and got second at a regionals with Toadtina back in the day. And that was almost, you know, in large part because a lot of juniors just couldn't manage the resources and play around. And play around the lock. So. Control is dis Historically, and I think this will forever be true, control is And anything that messes up your opponent's gameplan is disproportionately stronger in juniors and seniors.

Liam: 17:56

True.

Brent: 17:56

know, Liam, the classic example I always think of there is when you played Sable Garb versus who was that girl that was playing Manectric?

Liam: 18:03

Georgia Hill thing,

Brent: 18:05

Who? Yeah.

Liam: 18:06

Georgia Hill, yeah?

Brent: 18:08

I mean, so Megamanectric has like, built in acceleration, I don't know if you guys remember the old Megamanectric EX,

Mike: 18:16

Oh yeah,

Liam: 18:18

Yeah, she benched the Garbodor. I'm going to turn 2.

Mike: 18:20

ah, mistake.

Brent: 18:23

yeah, like it should be an auto loss, and, and instead, she like,

Mike: 18:28

energy.

Brent: 18:33

like four hammers the next turn, and, be like, okay, lose, lose the energy, and then like, next time she topdecked energy, she would try to attach it again.

Kaden: 18:46

Yeah.

Brent: 18:47

It was like if you just waited until you had, like, two energies in your hand, you could like, totally go crazy, she was not feeling that, because she was like, I got this energy.

Kaden: 19:00

And, and, another, another part of it is, you know, often times, Control decks are the more rogue decks in format. And those are the decks that, like, people, and this is also, you know, part of True and Master as well, you know, people just have less practice, less reps. Like, that girl has probably, had probably never played against that deck before.

Brent: 19:24

Yeah, yeah, and juniors are less likely to test, like, a deck like that, that sucks to test against. I mean They ain't gonna be feeling that.

Kaden: 19:34

and so, yeah, I think, I mean, yeah, I think it's been said, like Control is very good in the lower divisions, and so, and frankly, Control is also disproportionately better in Day 1 than it is in Day 2.

Liam: 19:50

I think it's better to just play a simple deck if you're in juniors or seniors. Like, if you just play your deck well, You automatically win. Like, your opponent's gonna give you the win. So, so play your deck well. It's really easy to do this with really straightforward decks. So I'd, I'd just do that. I think, I think where control, like, benefits is that controls actually, like, or like, a lot of control decks are, are actually, like, surprisingly straightforward. I guess, er, I wouldn't even say surprisingly. Every single deck is straightforward because when decks are not straightforward, they suddenly, they suffer from consistency issues. So, like, You know, control decks included, they're all super straightforward. You look at something like, you know, like Mewtwo V. Union or even Pidgeot, like, you know, basically the entire deck is just doing one thing. It's either getting out Mewtwo V. Union, or it's getting out Pidgeot. And you just You just do this thing every game but, you know, opponents like treat it weird, so they end up like, themselves, but, yeah, just make sure you do your thing every game, and if you do your thing every game, in younger divisions, you'll always win.

Brent: 20:45

Was like the classic example of, of this control deck is brain dead. Like, they printed Double Puzzle, and I was like, the first tournament Double Puzzle's legal, we're definitely playing Sableye. And it was like, okay, so every, every turn you get to go through your discard and pick two cards you want to put in your hand to play that turn, and most of the time it's Double Crushing Hammer, and like, couldn't have been more brain dead. Like, you

Kaden: 21:11

so by this logic, I honestly think that I honestly think, I honestly think Moridon seems like a pretty good pick for younger divisions, for Vancouver. Like that is, you know, it's, it is not the simplest deck in the world. It, I think, is actually kind of often deceptively difficult. You have a lot of different attackers that you can go for in any given situation, but oftentimes it's pretty clear which one's the best choice, and it's just about figuring out how to manage your energy, navigate to be able to swing with that attacker, and Yeah, so I actually think Maridon seems like a pretty good pick for Younger Divisions. Would you agree, Cam and Liam?

Cameron: 21:54

Yes, kind of. I'm a bit worried that they, they won't play as well into Charizard. Not that it's a great matchup, but yes, it is a good, fairly good Deck for young kids, I think it's very hard to tie with that deck, which is also very good for kids very straight forward, fast, you're gonna get the games over with, you're not gonna tie, you're not gonna get into this situation at the endgame where neither player knows what to do about a Gentleman's or even how to bring it up, and you just get to play the game, if you lose, you lose, if you win, you win, and it makes it so much easier for young kids to not have to think about these small minutiae of time. Which does matter a lot, as long as you're playing this very fast deck, which is going to happen to Tina, which is going to happen to Control, even Charizard, and definitely Gardevoir, right? Like, these are all decks that can easily take a long time, and can put kids in weird situations where they don't want to scoop, but they should, and they're not maybe practiced enough in that skill to do it, and they'll end up with a tie, and that won't happen with Moridon.

Brent: 22:57

Dude, juniors and seniors even do like gentleman's a lot. Like I feel like they can, they can go into a game knowing that they shouldn't tie, but like I, yeah,

Kaden: 23:08

No.

Cameron: 23:09

it takes like a top 8, like a top 8, top 16 senior to really know, and they have to know each other, and and probably it won't happen at ICs, because if they don't speak the same language yeah, it's, heh,

Brent: 23:22

yeah, yeah. Like, like Owen and Polaris, like, I, you know, I'm sure they recognize if they both get eliminated tie, like that's bad and they'll like, they can work it out. But I worry

Kaden: 23:31

Yeah, but,

Cameron: 23:31

So,

Kaden: 23:32

The only times I ever did a Gentleman's, Outside of, I think, Worlds Wa and in particular World's Day one was when I, I knew the other person and like I was familiar with the other person. And so there was some level of like, trust there.

Brent: 23:52

right.

Liam: 23:52

bro, what? This is why I don't understand people who don't make gentlemen's, because you don't even need trust, because like, your, your like, evaluation of the situation is, I have to avoid tying at all costs, like, tie and a loss are the exact same thing. I, I lose nothing by giving this guy the win in a tie situation. I, like, you only stand to gain if this guy gives you the win. Because you get, you get into, like, a favored position or something. Like, the, the tie and the loss are the same when you're making a Gentleman's. It'll be

Brent: 24:19

I mean, I, I think there's, I think we've definitely heard about situations where a guy's like you know what I realized after I made the gentleman that a top 2 56 gets me like five points.

Liam: 24:29

And from rational players perspectives, trying to do well, you only stand to gain, you only stand to gain. The loss and the tie are the same. Like, if the loss and the tie are not the same, you shouldn't be making the gentlemen's I think. Maybe, I haven't thought about this, but assume you're only making the gentlemen's when the loss and the tie are the same.

Kaden: 24:49

Yeah. I mean, I mean, for me the, I think the hardest gentlemans to make in the world is those games where it's win into top eight, tie into top 16, lose into top 32. I think that is, that is probably the hardest Gentleman's to like, decipher, and I would bet probably the Gentleman's that is most often reneged on.

Liam: 25:14

Oh my god, fiending for a top 16 is crazy!

Kaden: 25:17

I mean, especially, well, especially, like, the money difference between 30, between 32 and 16, if I'm remembering correctly, is large.

Cameron: 25:24

it is now,

Mike: 25:25

dollars

Liam: 25:26

yeah, that's pretty solid.

Kaden: 25:27

And like, so, I, it's not, it's not surprising to me, and I don't know, and so this is a situation where, you know, I don't think I would make a Gentleman's, not just because, you know, I would be okay tying and getting top 16, but also because I don't know if I could have enough I have no faith in my opponent, if it goes the wrong way, to

Liam: 25:52

yeah, that's fair.

Kaden: 25:53

actually stay honest when it's, there is actually that much on the line there, between a tie and a loss.

Liam: 25:59

Yeah, when there's a tie and loss

Cameron: 26:00

and I think where it is standing right now, at least in Masters, there's situations where you can win and make top 8, and I'm pretty sure you can lose and maybe bubble out of top 32, and so you're like, well that's a lot of money down the drain where like 2, 000 would probably pay for this trip and another one, and maybe a third depending on where I live and how money conscious I am on this trip. So, it's kind of made it even. Worst, in my opinion.

Kaden: 26:27

Yeah.

Cameron: 26:28

going to be fighting for those spots, and it is what

Kaden: 26:32

that's the case, and I have not I have not personally been in this situation yet, but if that's the case, I, like, I absolutely would not make a Gentleman's. I just would not have enough faith at all. Yeah,

Cameron: 26:48

And lovely Orlando

Liam: 26:49

That's the rough spot to be in. Hopefully, you know, I'll just go XO into Top Cut or I have to deal with this.

Cameron: 26:56

And good luck at Orlando, where there's going to be 3, 000 people, and if we've never navigated a tournament that big, and it'll probably be like, win top 8, lose top 128, or something ridiculous like that.

Mike: 27:10

So, I have one Maridon question. One Maridon question. The Poké Puzzle that you posted today, Liam is a Maridon puzzle. Is this a puzzle that was contrived, or kind of came up in a game, or like somewhere in between? Thank you.

Liam: 27:25

contrived. I assume that means, like, just constructed. Yeah.

Mike: 27:28

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liam: 27:28

Yes. Yes.

Mike: 27:30

Okay.

Liam: 27:32

Yeah, I

Mike: 27:33

because I know some of them are at least, maybe not exactly what happened in a game, but inspired by, you know, a situation that you or someone else seen. So I wasn't sure.

Liam: 27:43

No, no. Like, when I, when I first started this, like, Poker Puzzles thing the idea was just taking, like, you know, random spots from games You don't get into those spots as often as you think, like when you're, when you're just taking note of them randomly, it's, it's really hard to get into like multiple of those spots, I guess, like across the week, especially now that I'm doing this thing, dude, it's like, it's so time consuming, maybe there's a better method, but like, I have to, yeah, I have to, like, Make the whole thing on on PTCG Sim, which is like basically like throwing like 120 cards in like the right spots and then like, I have to, you also have to check every like, you're not just checking for a line that works, like you do when you're normally playing, you're also checking every other line to make sure it doesn't work so that you don't find alternate solutions. So like, every time you make a change, you have to like run through all the like realistic options again. is, yeah, it's, it takes so much more time than I thought.

Kaden: 28:42

when I, when I saw you were starting to do that, I was like, my god, how much time do each of these puzzles actually take?

Liam: 28:48

yeah, it, it takes a while. Luckily I'm in high school, um, so yes, it's, it's been like, kind of okay, but I, yeah, this is, this is definitely not sustainable. I'm, I'm not gonna do it for that long. Like yeah, I'm, I'm gonna do what I, I said I, I was gonna set out to do, which is like create like a solid, a solid base with a bunch of stuff for people to access. They're trying to improve at the game, like, you know, for years to come. Hopefully. Although I, I realize now that for years to come. A lot of people are not going to know what any of these cards do

Brent: 29:16

Yeah, rotation is in like a week, and you're like, years to come, years to come.

Liam: 29:22

going to be better, but I'll keep doing it for a little bit.

Brent: 29:25

How many people are sending you their ideas?

Liam: 29:29

I've gotten a few. The biggest issue is when people send me their ideas, they are generally interesting positions, but the other thing that I have to try to balance is limiting the amount of data that I need to show. So like, they're like, you have to know what these like 16 cards in the discard are, you have a 12 card deck, and you have like an 18 card hand, and like all this stuff has to be shown, your opponent's decklist is here, and your opponent has these cards in the discard, and like, fitting that all into like one image is like, Pretty much impossible, and I've tried to avoid going into like multiple images and multiple threads and stuff because nobody likes to click on that stuff as much as I can. So, you know, I've told people who've sent me out, like, I'll think about using them but so far I, I haven't,

Mike: 30:14

anything else for Vancouver that we need to talk about? Do we want to give like a meta prediction or is it just like what it's been?

Cameron: 30:24

I do want to double down on what, I mean, I haven't tried it, I don't play Zard, so I don't know if this is actually good myself, but I kind of want to double down on the meta cham. And Charizard. I do think that's something that can definitely show up and make an impact in probably one of your most important matchups, which is Guard of War. I do think Guard of War is kind of, it, it kind of went down for a little bit, and it has come back with Vengeance. I know that it went down. Ninth, 10th and 11th and just missed top eight by a lot in the European regional. That happened recently, but it was in the Australian regional. I think it was also in Knoxville, the same weekend where I wasn't at Knoxville as in Australia, but it's just like it, guard of war has come back with such a surg resurgence and I think that toward, you don't have to exactly play his list, but he had some really good ideas that, hey, maybe I don't feel I am as good at piloting that. His exact 60, you know, bind or drop GLC deck, but maybe I can take a couple of his ideas and, you know. make one of my top four matchups much

Liam: 31:32

Yeah, Kaden, if you haven't seen Towards Lists, you should, you should go take a

Kaden: 31:35

Oh, oh, I, this is the one piece of Pokemon that I've paid attention to. I saw, I was, I was following towards Run, and when I, I checked out his list, and oh my god. I mean, it's, like, what a way to cement yourself as, without a doubt, being, like, one. At lea at the very least, at the very least, top three, at the very least top three.

Cameron: 32:00

I think it's cemented isn't

Liam: 32:01

1,

Cameron: 32:02

I've said this at day one I said if he makes top eight with this list if he makes top eight with his list I know he's accomplished a lot of amazing things I said if he makes top eight with that crazy list it is his best accomplishment and then he goes and does it

Kaden: 32:17

mean, okay, I agree, I agree, I didn't want to say it, because it feels a little, you know, just saying this guy's top one, like I wouldn't, yeah. You know, just like I wouldn't say that LeBron is, like, the GOAT, the number one, but, top, but yes, I do think he's number one.

Mike: 32:36

I,

Kaden: 32:36

Not LeBron, for the record,

Mike: 32:38

very much see the arguments for both Tord and Jason still. I don't fault anybody putting Tord above Jason, for sure.

Kaden: 32:44

yeah.

Mike: 32:47

But Kieren in the Shift Gear podcast putting Gardevoir Gallade as like, number 3 or number 4 best decks ever, that's criminal dude. Gardevoir Gallade's best deck ever, for sure. Hundred percent.

Brent: 33:01

That's why there's no other Pokemon podcasts. Kind of heretical commentary. Mike, let's do your questions. You had some great ones. We should get into it. They're going to take like 15 minutes, so we should jump

Mike: 33:13

they'll probably take a little bit. So in I said last time, trying to get to know Cam a little bit better, but this is also open to Liam and Caden also share some of my thoughts. We've probably talked a little bit about these types of questions that, you know, some random points on the podcast, but never, I think, so pointedly. So we're gonna talk about some of our favorite least favorite decks and, and whatnot that we've played over and over. The years. So some questions based on that. So I'm just going to go down the list and then maybe we can kind of go around chat a little bit, and then we'll move on to the next question. So the first one is just straight up. Favorite deck you've ever played? To a, let's say a major tournament. So

Cameron: 33:53

Easy.

Mike: 33:54

state or regional championships and above.

Cameron: 33:58

And knowing these other two, that I've talked to Liam and Caden a lot, they might agree with me here. I think it's for me by far Checkmate Persian Checkmate. Which was, first the original idea was by Finnegan Lynch, but a couple of us, myself included, had worked on the deck. And it's by, by far my favorite deck. It is the hardest deck I've ever played in the game of Pokemon, and it's definitely the most fun.

Mike: 34:24

So I'm glad that you mentioned that. I'm glad that you mentioned that because I was looking like last week or something like that at your Limitless page, just to, because I wasn't super familiar with it, and I saw that you made top 8 at a regional in Malaysia. Is that where it was? Okay. Do you want to give us like a brief story time?

Cameron: 34:43

So my ex now, but we had been going to Asia, and someone had asked me, they're like, oh, are you going to the Malaysia regionals? And I said, what? There's a Malaysia regionals? Checked it out, there was one when I was, I think I was in Japan, and I looked at flights, it was like 300 for a roundtrip, or something cheap as compared to like, flying over there just for that. And, so, we had been working on Checkmate. I played Checkmate at the tournament before, I did terribly because I actually did a lot more watching the deck of With some of the people who were testing it and so I was more I didn't have a lot of practice playing it as much I just knew a lot of the ideas because I was watching people play it through discord But after getting that one kind of bad tournament in I was like, okay I feel like I can play this much better went over there and Pretty much only the top players over there, Brent Brent and Natalie Millar and some of the Australian group being one of those groups and maybe some of the, there's like another group from not Malaysia but a different country, I forget, who had known What I was doing at all. Like, no one else knew what I was doing. There were people who literally stopped attacking me for like five turns cause they were like, I have no idea what you're doing. And it's like, I'm really scared of like, what's going on. And so, it, it's like That deck was very much thrived on people not really knowing what to do against it. But when I played against Brent in top 8, who is probably a top 3, top 5 player currently right now, best player in Australia, I sat down and him and I played, and the first thing he said to me is, Yeah, we know your list, or roughly, like, the 58 cards, and we built it last night, and we've been testing it all night, and I was like, Fantastic! And he did much better than anybody else did. I did make a slight misplay in top 8, which would have forced a game 3 but there was just so many things going on with that deck. And for anyone who doesn't know what Checkmate is, it's basically Neganadel GX has an attack that says both players shuffle their prizes into their deck, and then lay out three each. So it kind of restarts the game. You would take no prizes in the beginning, and you would just set up damage all over the opponent's board. They would go down to one prize, you would activate Stinger we'd go back to three, they would take a knockout. We had there was no three prizers at that time. So they would only take one or two prizes, and then you had, hopefully, set up the board where you can take three prizes in one turn. And so that was the basis of the deck, but that happened in a lot of different ways, and differently depending on the matchup.

Mike: 37:33

Yeah.

Kaden: 37:33

So, this is also my favorite deck of all time. It was the, I would say, I, I agree, it is, it was the hardest, most complex deck I've ever played in Pokemon. It was also, frankly, the first complex deck that I felt like I got really good at. I had never really done that. Dedicated myself to a hard deck prior to that, you know, I, this was, I was, I was pretty young, it wasn't that, this is a four years ago now Unfortunately, I never, so I got really, I actually think I got quite good at the deck, and I was planning on playing it at I want to say Toronto, I want to say Toronto. I mean, basically every regionals, as many as I could for the rest of the season, because I felt confident in it. I felt like it was a really strong deck. And also, you know, like we talked about, Control and those kinds of, those kinds of decks that force your opponent to play a little differently are very, very strong in the lower divisions. Unfortunately, COVID hit, and all the tournaments got cancelled, and I never got the chance to play the deck at a major event, which is, I think, genuinely my biggest heartbreak. In Pokemon, as a whole, ever, it's not losing a top 8 match, it er, losing a match in the top 8, it's not losing a match in the finals of regionals, it was lit literally never getting to bring my personal favorite deck that I poured so much time into to a major event, like, and I, in some sense, I think it actually, you know, Like, I have never in some sense, I think it genuinely soured me on the game in a real way, because I have never been able to find any other deck that made me feel anywhere close to the amount of fun and joy that I got from playing that deck. And, so, yes. But your question was, what is my favorite deck that I've played to a major? So, I guess I can't say Persian Checkmate. And, so I think I'm gonna have to give it to Donphan, which I won San Jose 2015 Regionals, I wanna say, I think it was 2015 Regionals with, and this was the Donphan that had You would chip for 40 and get to switch Spinning Turn, and so you ran both Wobbuffet. This was a Russell Lepar creation that he handed to me, and I was like, My god, this deck is amazing. And at the time, you had both Wobbuffet, which, when it was in the active position, it shut off all of your opponent's basic abilities, I think it was?

Cameron: 40:18

Psychic, right?

Mike: 40:19

nons Psychic.

Kaden: 40:20

non psychic basic abilities. And,

Mike: 40:22

Nons. Psychic. Just all,

Kaden: 40:25

yeah. Oh, oh, okay, okay. Just non psychic abilities. And you also ran Robo Substitute, which notably did not, your opponent did not take a prize card when they knocked out. And, I mean, the deck was just a bunch of fun. It was very straightforward, very linear. But, just like a really funny deck to watch your opponent try to do stuff against when they're just stuck doing nothing and you're just swinging for like 80 a turn.

Mike: 40:57

Was that expanded?

Kaden: 41:00

This was, this was when they had, it was standard, but this was when they had top 8 of a regionals was expanded, but I just played Donphan the whole time.

Mike: 41:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. You added, like, computer search and called it a day. Yeah,

Brent: 41:15

was the deck that, that Russell and Dylan blew up at Philadelphia Regionals with. That first Regionals, you had a good run at that Regionals, right Mike?

Mike: 41:24

top 8, yeah. I made top 8 of that one. That was, like, my first big tournament back, basically. Yeah, but Dylan Bri dude, that, that, that Don fan list was crazy though. Dylan Brian, they played like, I think they played like, Zekrom and

Brent: 41:38

Yeah.

Mike: 41:39

Like, yeah,

Kaden: 41:40

Mine was much more straightforward. Mine was, I think, a little bit more straightforward. Younger Divisionified, handed to me in a much more straightforward, linear form. Where just swing with the Donfan, and then bring up your Robosub or your Wob, and that's all you gotta do.

Mike: 41:56

Makes sense. Alright, Liam, what do you got? Favorite deck? Hmm. Houndoom, Radicate?

Liam: 42:06

One of my favorites was Sander's Eviltal, Pikachu, Eldegoss thing that deck's just really fun. Like, all of Sander's lists are really fun to play like, his engine work is really, really good. You just, you just shred the deck with, like, and you're not shredding the deck by just, like, playing a bunch of Research or, like, playing Curlier or, like, whatnot. Like, you play all of these weird cards, like, you play, like, a bunch of Flannery and Tower of Darkness and, like, Basically every card you draw into is a way to just draw more cards and playing those kinds of decks is really fun. As well as being like, you know, anti meta and slow, you're like also shredding the deck. It's really cool. I guess the other I would say is like Houndoom Raticate. That deck was really cool. I really like that one, and maybe like Banette. I like Monette, that's what I'm saying.

Mike: 42:55

I don't even know what you're talking about.

Liam: 42:58

Yeah, it might have been, yeah, when you like took a break. It was, I think it was in like 2015, 2016 maybe, maybe early 2017. No, no, it would have been like 2015, 2016. Yeah, it was like a Houndoom EX like Mil 2, and then there was a Raticate that discarded an energy.

Mike: 43:12

okay, okay. I do know the Houndoom. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, cool. For me, yeah, lots of different decks that I wrote down. I have one that I want to talk about maybe later with a different question. In the more modern era, I created and played a deck, kind of in that same format, Cameron, that you

Cameron: 43:33

yeah,

Mike: 43:34

you played the Stinger stuff. And it had, it did play, it was like Behemoth with Negan, both Negan and LGXs, the draw engine, and then I played Stinger as well. That deck was super, super fun. I only got to play it at one regional but I won a couple cups with it locally.

Kaden: 43:48

That format was so good.

Mike: 43:50

That format was really good.

Kaden: 43:52

I love that format.

Cameron: 43:53

Until you build it again, and then you play it, and you realize how much degenerate stuff I don't want to curse, but degenerate stuff is in that format, it is actually insane when you go back to replay and you're like, oh, is this actually fun?

Liam: 44:08

Yeah, dude, I know, everybody, when I say everybody, I, you know, I mean myself always talks about how like yeah, yeah, like, this format specifically, last two years, modern era, whatever, are like just the worst decks. But yeah, I was Last night I was on PTCG Sim, playing with Arjun Kadse, and we were looking through Michael Wong's archive of old decks, and none of those are fun. Like, there was nothing there that we were like, oh man, those are, those are really cool to play. They're pretty

Kaden: 44:39

I just feel like I feel like, and I don't, I feel like there was way, you know, previously there was way more random junk that, frankly, was a nightmare to play against, and like, but in some ways, I miss it. Like, I miss, I miss random crazy stuff like Neganadel GX, or like Garbotoxin Garbodor, or like Hypno Lasers.

Mike: 45:12

Yeah,

Cameron: 45:13

think it was because those are like, they're toxic decks that might not be fun against but the games also lasted longer so you got to kind of maybe experience the game in a like a longer turn you just the games felt more different where right now because the game is so fast you

Liam: 45:31

Yeah, I,

Cameron: 45:31

of repetitive or almost cookie cutter matchups

Liam: 45:36

of the games that we played last night was Azorogarde Mirror from like 2017 2018 maybe. And, yeah, the game was like, it was like 20 turns. like, yeah, because we'd both gotten like, garbs out at multiple stages of the game and just started draw passing for like, five turns. And like, it wasn't even like, draw passing because we didn't have anything, but it was more like, you know, if you make the first move, if you play the Field Blower DCE first, you like, You just lose resources unnecessarily, and you have to you have to wait until you can, like, guaranteed make progress by drawing into more stuff. And, like, yeah, that that pacing just feels, like, much better than, like, you know, on, like, turn two, you have to hit, like, a multi card combo or else you instantly lose. Let me have a look

Mike: 46:19

thing is, like, the games themselves actually weren't, like, time wise, they weren't that much longer. They just had more turns, right? Like the turns themselves were just shorter which I think was generally good.

Liam: 46:30

dude, like, all of the draw abilities in the game right now are terrible, like, it's, it's just the worst thing to play with, there's so much draw, and like, all this thinning, and like, it just leads to these like 10 minute turns where you don't actually do anything, you're just like, filling out the actions, bro, it's,

Brent: 46:49

People, people played Nightmarch and they're like, this is a totally normal thing. All, all, all decks should be like this.

Liam: 46:56

even those decks you draw like

Kaden: 46:57

having long turns. Nightmarch was like, man, Nightmarch has long turns at that time. Like, I feel like I remember people talking about how long the turns with Nightmarch were just because of, you know, Battle Compressor and, you know, the amount. Maybe I'm

Brent: 47:12

But you know, we, we said I mean, no, we, we said all that, and all that was true, but really, we were only talking about turn one. Like, after turn one, Vespiquen Vileplume, turns took 30 seconds, cause like, there were only 3 cards left in deck, what are you gonna do? Like, turn 1 took 15 minutes, but after that, like, let's go.

Kaden: 47:35

yeah, yeah.

Mike: 47:37

Alright, let's flip the question around. This might be shorter, because we'll be less enthused about it. What is the least favorite deck you've ever played to a major tournament? Caden seems excited for

Kaden: 47:49

I, oh, my god, it is not even a question.

Mike: 47:52

Be

Kaden: 47:53

the scene, let's set the scene. This is 2016 Worlds. I have had by a long shot, like, my greatest season of all time. I think I won four regionals that season, and got second at another. Something like that. I got top 16 for the year, Auto Day 2, and I decide to play Zygarde, Vileplume, Two Worlds. And it is, bar none, one of the worst tournament experiences I've ever had in my life. That deck was so bad. I don't know what in my head, I don't know what made us end up deciding to play it. I, I, I, Brent might frankly be able to remember better than I can. But that deck sucked. It was inconsistent, it was underpowered, and I completely bombed. So that is definitely my least favorite deck that I've ever played to a tournament, for sure. Ha

Liam: 48:59

That's a really good answer. I played the same thing as Kayden but, you know, I don't hold myself for anything I did prior to, like the 2022 season. That was, you know, I wasn't actually thinking at that point, so, it was on me.

Mike: 49:15

Dracozolt then, Liam.

Liam: 49:19

That was a cool deck, though. No regrets. I don't play decks that I'd regret playing, you know? I actually, like, go out of my way, I think, a little too much to say, you know, like, if I played this and I did bad, and there was a Dracazolt deck sitting at home, I'd regret it big time. So, you know, like,

Kaden: 49:35

We've had

Liam: 49:35

to play Dracazolt instead, right? Hmm?

Kaden: 49:38

I remember we've had this exact conversation.

Liam: 49:41

Indeed.

Kaden: 49:42

Yeah.

Liam: 49:43

Maybe a downfall, but yeah, no regrets. Ain't that amazing,

Brent: 49:46

Liam has a no regret strategy to picking decks that does not always serve him well, but like, the thing he does.

Kaden: 49:53

It does leave him with no regrets.

Mike: 49:57

Cam, do you have a deck you regret playing? Or did like, or did not like playing?

Cameron: 50:02

Think I really liked it going up to the tournament, I forget what tournament it was, it was a deck that I also convinced Caden and his father to play. I learned a lot from it, and Caden might remember this, Beast Box, when it first came out, I think Beast Box was something that was theoretical in a lot of people's minds when Ultra Beasts had come out in the Sun and Moon format, ended up never really doing anything at any point when it was out, I I had convinced myself and two others that it was possibly good at the first regional, and it ended up we all were out of the tournament by round four or five. And I also learned a lot about convincing people to play decks and the ramifications of that. But yes, that was by far my least favorite deck.

Kaden: 50:49

I don't remember that at all.

Mike: 50:52

He's blocked it. Caden's

Liam: 50:53

Yeah.

Kaden: 50:53

mean, I, like, there are definitely, well, I mean, part of the reason why I remember Zygarde Vileplume so much is because it was worlds, and it was the, the one worlds that I've auto daytued. And so that, I think that, like, there are definitely, I've bombed worlds. Probably worse at some regionals than I did at that Worlds, but that's, you know, because it's Worlds it stands out more in my mind.

Cameron: 51:14

I also think there was not much to remember, we were, like I said, our days were over very, very quickly.

Mike: 51:22

That's funny. The least, least fun I think that I've ever had playing a deck at a major tournament was Decidueye Vileplume. I just like, it was a good deck, but it was just extremely, like it was excruciating to play, let alone play against. Like I just hated almost every moment of it, and then I never played it again. Just very not fun, but the deck that I most regret playing is the format right after 2018 Worlds where we had, like, no good draw or search, really and, like, I don't know, Zork was still good, but I had to play, like, Judge and Greatballs and stuff like that. Peter Kika convinced me to play Passimian at a regional, like, in the fall right after that, and that was, that was bad. Cause I was gonna play Zork until, like, the day before, and then I played Passimian, which was not great. Do you guys have a yeah, okay, okay. Do you guys have a deck that

Brent: 52:24

You know, that was an actual deck. I will say, in Mike's defense, he was actually playing a real deck that was just bad.

Mike: 52:31

Sure, sure. Do you guys have a deck that you most regret not playing? And, like, Caden, it might be the same tournament, or it might be a different tournament, but, like, for me, I know for sure I didn't play I played Gardevoir Gallade in 2008 the whole season, like made top four at Nationals, and then decided not to play it at Worlds. I like the deck that I played at Worlds, but I still had a lot of regret not playing it at Worlds, because that deck was broken.

Kaden: 52:57

Hmm, this one's harder. Largely because I think I often don't remember, I don't remember, oftentimes, like, what I was thinking about playing going into an event. So I

Mike: 53:11

Yeah, yeah, I find that like so often I have like two decks that I'm kind of deciding between and I want to run the tournament, I want to enter myself twice and play the tournament as both decks and so I think I have a little bit more of that maybe in my brain.

Cameron: 53:30

same, I think, I don't know if it's a deck I've never played it, I think Regis when it was legal, I think it ended up being a deck that, I really wanted to play two multiple tournaments, ended up being like my second pick and just never got around to playing it, got a little too scared of tying and brickying and all that. So I kind of, similar to you, would always want to like, wish I could go back and simulate a tournament and see how it would have gone with the Regis, and then I think the only other time was my first Worlds, which I think was 2017 Worlds, it was the, where Zorgarb and Buzzwole were the top two decks. convinced myself to play Zor Control, which was Isaiah Williams deck. It was a good deck, no doubt. I just don't think that, it was my first year, I don't think I was ready to pilot that deck. And, I think it should have been, pick something a little easier, and I kind of threw away that tournament, I feel like.

Brent: 54:27

Man, it's easy to imagine how one could make that mistake, because that was the best deck.

Liam: 54:34

Cam, what were you playing during, this was like during the Silver Tempest format, Regis, right?

Cameron: 54:39

Yes, I ended up playing Vikavolt V,

Mike: 54:44

Oh yeah, you, yeah, yeah, yeah, Vikavolt. You had, you had some good success with Vikavolt though. you

Cameron: 54:51

Yeah.

Liam: 54:52

And you wish you played Regis?

Cameron: 54:54

No, it's just, at the time, that was the deck that was on my mind, I mean, in the moment, and I always just wish I got to see what it would have been like if I got to play Regis.

Mike: 55:04

Liam or Caden, you got anything or nah? It's okay if you don't.

Kaden: 55:10

I don't, I don't really got anything. My memory's bad.

Mike: 55:15

All right, if you think of something let me know. Last question though. Do you have something, whether it's an accomplishment over a finish, a deck that you helped build, or something else in the game that you are most proud of? Those

Cameron: 55:33

this one?

Liam: 55:36

Yeah obviously the easy, easy answer is 2022 Seniors Worlds I won that event. It's a fantastic accomplishment. Yeah. The cooler answer is a weird Tapu Koko spread deck in, like, 2019. That was a, that was a sick deck. Sick deck.

Brent: 55:54

That was a deck you regretted not playing at at that regionals.

Liam: 55:57

I, I was going to say that, but the deck I was playing was Zoropod with the Oranguru. And like, you know, the heavy Ace of Rolos, the Seekers, the Puzzles, all that junk. I think that deck was, I think about the event now, I'm not entirely sure, I don't know what the meta was like. I obviously didn't have my brain turned on back then. But, that deck must have been good. The deck looks amazing. So, so I can't, I can't say I regret it. Not playing something else instead. That deck must have been amazing, even though I like somehow chucked my way out of that tournament. That deck must have been amazing. But yeah, the Type of Kugelwund was cooler. So, I like that one. I,

Mike: 56:31

Caden.

Kaden: 56:33

I think, I think for me, I have a few different answers for this one, kind of in different areas of, you know, my experience playing Pokemon. Like I think, in terms of, I, I honestly think learning Persian Checkmate is one of the things I would put up there. Like I said, it was the first time I had ever really put in the time to, I think, get really good at a very complex deck, which at, you know, at that time, playing Persian Checkmate was genuinely one of the harder things, mentally, that I had ever done in my life, period, in terms of how mentally taxing it was to play that deck and again, you know, this was, like, whatever, freshman year of high school, but it was, I'm honestly pretty proud of myself for making the call to put in the time to get, to try to get good at that deck. So in terms of personal accomplishment, I think that's, that's up there. I think that genuinely one of the greatest moments of joy that I have experienced playing Pokémon Pokémon. Was honestly also watching Liam win Worlds, and testing with Liam for finals, and like that, basically all of that Worlds, was like, there, there's something magical about, you know, a good friend, someone you really, really care about, doing really, really well, and being able to like, kind of join them along for the ride, and, and support them in any way you can, that's like, really rewarding. So I would honestly put that up there in another category. In terms of like, you know, a tournament myself that I, that I did well in I honestly think that still, you know, winning my first regionals with Donphan was, like, had a kind of magical quality to it. I had never top eighted a regionals before that. This was my, it was my first time in Top 8, it was my first time making a deep run into a tournament, and I think that, that was the tournament that really got me hooked on the game and, so I don't know. This is just a loose collection of thoughts and moments that, like, really stand out in my mind as being Very powerful and having a large impact on me, but I don't know. So I don't really know the answer to the question, sorry.

Mike: 59:06

I mean, I think that's great. You come back for an episode and hit us with the feels, man. That's exactly what we're looking for.

Liam: 59:13

have two comments on that. I'll work backwards. The first one, Caden was talking about, you know, supporting your friend and whatnot. I know Big Mike knows about that. 2012, Big Ross. The other is, Caden said something about like, deciding to put the time in for that deck, and that sentence just like, triggered a wave of memories for me. On that question about what decks I regret playing, Gardevoir. I played Gardevoir to like, three major events because I thought I was misplaying myself out of the event. That deck is terrible. I should have, I put way too much time in with that deck. I tried to learn it. It doesn't matter. Deck's trash. I played the deck way too much. So yeah, that's my answer for that question.

Mike: 59:51

That's funny. All right, Cam, what you got?

Cameron: 59:54

I would say two decks the first being, I think it was 2018 Santa Clara, 2019 Santa Clara Regionals. it was when Charizard, Rush Ram. Tag Team GX came out, and I think everyone, or most people had tagged Abilities Art as the best way to play it. I saw a Japanese list that was a little more defensive, and I kind of took it my own way, played like over 400 games with the deck. Most people didn't believe in it. I did test with a lot of good players before that regional. Alex McNeil, Finnegan Lynch, Kian Amini, I think Joel Struve. Most of them ended up making Day 2 and making Top 32, but Kion decided to play Greenzard with me, and then he ended up winning the event, and at that point I had not really accomplished anything myself, but I think seeing Kion win, seeing a good player, Kion's one of, you know, one of the great players of the game, if if you've been in this game for a while, and just having, you know, See him trust my deck, which no one else believed him, and then take it all the way. It kind of gave me the confidence I needed in deck building and trusting my own ideas, even when other people don't. And I guess the other one would be Vikavolt V. Once again, not really a deck that was, like, I created on my own entirely, but just maybe a variant that not a lot of people were playing. And, it, got top 16 myself, and then, seeing Polaris win, and I think both those times, just seeing someone else win, even though it's not me, it's just so, you know, that, that's gonna happen in a group, and that's why you play in a group of people, usually, just so you have a higher chance, and, just being able to see that, and, watch it happen is just, like, a really cool moment, so I think those two.

Mike: 1:01:48

Yeah. Yeah, that's sweet. And everything that I wrote down for my favorite stuff kind of echoes what you guys are saying, like it's, Pokemon is an individual game, but it's, but it's a team game, too. And yeah, so like working on stuff like The Truth, like Vespiquen Evolta with Ross, like, and seeing him do well was great. I helped with the Flygon Memory Berry deck in like 2009, and then Some people did really well with that. So yeah, I, I totally agree with you guys. Cool. All right. Thank you for indulging me in in, in going back a little bit.

Kaden: 1:02:24

Thank you, Mike, that was great.

Mike: 1:02:26

Brent, you want to take us home?

Brent: 1:02:29

Guys, it's easy. The John Pauls are our outro. That was a long one. We will try, like, next week, theoretically, Liam and I are on spring break. Theoretically, he is skiing Tuesday afternoon, which is when we usually record the pod for the first time in his life. I will be skiing for the first time in my life, theoretically, if I'm not dead or something's broken horribly. All these things are somewhat likely. Having said that, I am sure if if we pull together something, some kind of day 2 run for camera, Liam, We will try to find a window to make the magic happen, because I know that people gotta know.

Kaden: 1:03:03

And I look forward to the skiing recap.

Brent: 1:03:05

Oh my god. Oh my god. As a Texan, I'm you know, I recognize this, it's not my natural state to go to the cold place to do, like, a thing that's fun. It's cold. It's like, it makes no sense. The John Pauls are our outro. We'll see you guys next week.