Brent: 0:05

Welcome to the Trash Launch Podcast, the only podcast about the Pokemon Trading card game. It is crazy how there are no others. You would think there would be more. It's a hundred percent attendance. As always. Liam's here. Mike's here. I'm here. I'm no new five star reviews, but if you leave a review, we will read it on the pod and then. The 100 percent of us will discuss it. That is your chance to do a thing that you could do. And people say it's super, super good for podcasts when people leave reviews because the algorithm does stuff. Dragonshield continues to set the sleeves and we appreciate it. You guys probably saw Mike's awesome a tweet of a zillion old school decks that he has pulled together. I am sure those will be a Dragonshield sleeves, because they're the best.

Mike: 0:52

All sleeved up in Dragon Shields, and I think the big thing, especially for these older decks, is Dragon Shields just, they shuffle, they keep shuffling well, even after like a hundred games, which is like ideal for the old format stuff, and just kind of like evergreen decks, you know, I would change them after if I was playing in like one or two tournaments, but they're still good, they're still great

Brent: 1:18

Yeah, I know everybody complains about Dragonshield and other sleeves with like, like they're like, they're slightly miscut out of the box, all that. You never hear anybody complain about the incredible durability of Dragon Shields. And, like, yeah, to your point, even, like, you might feel like, from a tournament quality, you gotta change out the sleeves, like, you know, after Regionals, you played, like, 20 rounds with them, you're like, okay, we gotta resleeve this deck. But, you can keep playing with them for a long time. I mean, I know for us, like, after we de sleeve a deck and say, oh, we gotta put, like, fresh sleeves on this, we keep the old sleeves and then use them on, like, test decks and stuff because Dragon Shields are, like, good forever. It's

Mike: 2:00

For sure.

Brent: 2:02

Guys, let's jump right into it. Mike, you wanna kick us off? We're gonna talk a little about the Nerd Rage versus what's the LZK stand for? Lost Zone

Mike: 2:10

Lawson Kitchen. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. So, Dan Hugar. Friend of the pod messaged me to see if we could promote this a little bit, and it's a really good cause. So Nerd Rage Gaming, which is a store out of Chicago, or Chicago, greater Chicago area, they are running a charity event and charity stream on Saturday, where a bunch of the Nerd Rage Gaming players who are sponsored by the store, are playing against players from Lost Zone Kitchen, which I guess is kind of like an unofficial team. A lot of great players though, on both sides, and they're going to be streaming their like sort of conquest money match type of thing but the money match is just for raising money for a charity that is called Chicago, I think Greater Chicago Food Depository. Basically I think they help feed. People that, you know, can't otherwise feed themselves, which I think is obviously a good cause. So they're gonna be streaming on twitch. tv slash nrgstore. They're gonna have giveaways throughout the stream as they keep hitting different donation marks. Things like booster boxes, world's merchandise, stuff like that. There's gonna be seven rounds, I believe, of different formats. Some standard, some old ro Old format, some post rotation format, some, maybe some wacky funny stuff, like that Magikarp splash format, which I know nothing about. So If you are around Saturday and want to check it out, go for it. If you can donate, donate. I actually will be home most of the day Saturday watching The Dog because my wife is going out of town for the weekend. So I'll probably tune in for a bit and give a little bit of money myself. So, yeah, should be fun.

Brent: 3:56

So are they all playing? Like, I know I had seen the tweet that said they're playing here, here's, here's the thing. These amazing players will be playing in a Conquest format series with decks from NAIC 2018. So is it, like, a bunch of different formats? Oh, eh, eh,

Mike: 4:12

Yes, I believe,

Brent: 4:13

yeah. So, are they changing the formats every round as different people get different decks?

Mike: 4:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so like, yeah, so for, for example, I think like Dan is playing against Nick Robinson in post rotation. And then like another two players might play, you know, a game of 2016 Worlds or something like that.

Liam: 4:33

So is it not just best of seven or is it like actual conquest, like?

Mike: 4:39

I'm not sure. I mean, I, presumably they have to stream this for a while, right? Like, I don't know, I can't imagine they're doing all this for, like, a two hour stream. It's probably gonna be, like, an eight hour stream. And so maybe each thing has, like maybe each matchup is, like, a best of three or a best of five or something like that.

Liam: 4:57

That would actually be pretty cool if you did, or like, if you were able to make like cross format conquest kind of by like balancing the decks out somehow, like, you know, just to see interactions I guess that like you'd never normally see

Mike: 5:12

That's true.

Liam: 5:13

any point. I don't know exactly how that'd work. It'd take a lot of work, but.

Mike: 5:18

well, it's funny, we were actually talking in my, in, in, like, the Philadelphia Discord the other day. Because next week, and this is a plug too, if anybody is in the Philadelphia area next Wednesday, March 13th and wants to come to my league at Red Caps, I'm going to be bringing all of my Worlds decks and people are going to play with them. So we were talking about that a little bit in our Discord, and someone mentioned, imagine like, Mew VMAX versus a deck in like 2004. And I said that like, you could probably just play Like, Mu V, like, you don't even need Mu V Max in the deck, you could just attack with Mu V, and you probably would not drop a prize any game, against any deck, in 2004. But you could probably,

Brent: 6:01

can be Psychic Leaping only, and like, be taking KOs, streaming KOs, it's just like, completely unstoppable, right? Yeah,

Mike: 6:10

so, but maybe something like, you know, like, a 2015 deck versus 2017 deck, so maybe you could, like, somehow balance that, right?

Liam: 6:19

Well, I mean, you just have to take the absolute worst decks from future formats, like,

Mike: 6:23

Right, right, right, right, right.

Liam: 6:26

ones.

Brent: 6:29

Power Creep is a real thing, I do not know if even like Zorogarb would be able to be competitive in the current format, just

Liam: 6:36

Absolutely not.

Brent: 6:38

Yeah, 20 times anything is not enough anymore. It's gotta be 30.

Mike: 6:42

Yeah.

Liam: 6:42

Dude, it doesn't even one shot a Mew VMAX, so

Brent: 6:45

Yeah.

Liam: 6:47

And Guard probably doesn't hit hard enough either. Like, it's

Mike: 6:51

Yeah. I don't know. Trashland. Eh,

Liam: 6:53

Guard, Guard,

Brent: 6:54

Trash. Trash Ranch is al, I mean, trash Le is always

Mike: 6:56

Yeah.

Brent: 6:57

Trash Ranch is the goat, have no doubt. So I went, I went and looked at 2018 NAIC format because I, I saw them saying like Sawyer Melbourne and Ryan Prussack were gonna be playing that format. And I was like, what are the decks of people were playing? And Zoro Garb won NAIC, Stef Ivanov played it. Tord Reklev came in second with just straight Zoro work. And then Jimmy Pandarvis got third with Zoropod. So it was just all Zoro all the time. Fourth was Malamar.

Mike: 7:30

Yep. Malamar. Buzzrock was like pretty good.

Brent: 7:33

Zoro Rock, Ryan Antonucci, top 8 ed.

Mike: 7:37

Nice.

Brent: 7:40

deck to play, but probably not like not good enough, but you could tell, like, they were right on the verge of realizing that Oranguru was a card that was gonna break the game. Like, Tord is like, four Zoroark, four Tapu Lele, Oranguru. And you're like, like, he's like right on the verge of saying, oh, yeah, he plays the Delinquent, he plays 3N, he plays three Enhanced Hammers, He plays two max potions, like, you're right there to be just like, Zoro control everything to death.

Mike: 8:21

Yeah. Well, people really thought going into that wor So, going into that Worlds, we got the some new set but it was still the same format, just with the new set, and Zorro Macargo Control was, like, touted as, like, maybe BDIF, but then it just, like, was worse than Zorogarp,

Brent: 8:41

right, you do not have to, it turns out that a lot of the decks where you put one card on the top of your deck, and then enable all your draw engine off that, you can just draw lots of cards and it's probably fine.

Mike: 8:52

exactly.

Brent: 8:53

It's Pokemon, if you just draw lots of cards, it usually works out. Yeah, what was, what was the deck, oh, we played, um what was the Seismitoad deck we played, Liam, that had the stage 2 that you would Archies out to do the same stupid thing?

Liam: 9:09

I have genuinely no clue. Everyone likes

Brent: 9:11

It was, it was

Mike: 9:12

there was

Brent: 9:12

was the deck you played at Pennsylvania States in, like, 2015.

Liam: 9:19

right?

Brent: 9:19

Yeah, it was Slurpuff, but there was a water

Liam: 9:22

Oh, Swampert? Yeah, Swampert.

Brent: 9:24

thank you.

Mike: 9:24

Swampert, yeah.

Brent: 9:26

Liam got the Swampert out zero times the entire tournament, never dropped it around. It turns out if you just do the Slurpuff thing, you draw plenty of cards, it's fine.

Mike: 9:38

yep.

Brent: 9:38

we put an Arceus in there anyway because apparently we like to only play with 58 good cards and then see how it goes.

Mike: 9:48

Hey, I mean you could, you could Archie the Seismitoad out.

Brent: 9:51

Not a thing that happened. Not a thing that happened. Alright. Alright, let's let's talk about local results. You guys, you guys both played in some tournaments,

Mike: 10:01

Alright, Liam, you start, what'd you do?

Liam: 10:03

I played in one event it was a League Cup, and I decided to play Mew with It was like, I wouldn't even say too teched out, like I reverted it quite a bit, but I went down to two power tablets I played Luxray, I played Penny, I played Pal Pad and I honestly liked the deck, I played one Crushing Hammer as well, you know, just for

Mike: 10:26

Not too teched out, sure.

Liam: 10:28

but well like, yeah, it started off with like, you know, it started off with two Penny, and then like, Bravery Charms and all that stuff. I really like the Bravery Charms in Mew. Well, not really, I cut them all, but they're okay for putting on the Genesects. If you play like a lot of them, you can put them on Genesects for Gardy. And, like, just generally make your stuff, like, tankier. I like Charms. Tools are really good. I played instead of the third and fourth power tablets, I played a Defiance Band and a Justified Gloves. So that lets you go through two moons. And, they're, the items are trash. Because you basically just have to hold the tablets the whole time when you're playing the deck. Or you give up on them forever, whereas the tools, you can just drop them early. And. They stick really good. And I really like the theory for this deck. The deck sucks, don't play it. But the idea was pretty cool, which is that by playing the Luxray you can you can like always force your opponent to take the first prize. And in that case, like, the first two prizes, and you're able to target the bosses, so you're, like, you're able to put them onto a really bad prize map by giving them the Luxray first, getting rid of their bosses, like, against Gardevoir or something, if you get rid of their boss, you give them the Luxray first, then you give them the VMAX And, like, when you give them the VMAX, you're not even really giving it to them, because or, like, you never actually activate a reversal so, like, you give them the Luxray, you give them the VMAX, and then you go like, Iona, Path to 1. So it's, it's, like, cool for throwing them on a bad prize map, but, yeah, and the deck's trash. Like, like, Mew just sucks. It wasn't even, like, the deck was, like, I was, like, missing the tablets, or, like, I wasn't drawing well. It's just, like, the deck's just trash. It's just trash. Like You know, I got, I got hit with the like, the Roaring Moon, just like attack three times, then I lost I got hit with the, the Guardian, I lost the Guardian, I was gonna beat the Guardian, but I had to, I had to speed up and, because it was only 30 minutes best of one, and so I, I couldn't slow roll, I, I also played an Aura Choreo, so like, After they take the Luxray, you don't ever go ahead, you just start hitting with the Aura Choreo attack and start spreading. Yeah, I had to speed up because there was only like, you know, a limited amount of time. And yeah, so I lost that and I lost to a Roaring Moon. Yeah, Dex Trash.

Mike: 12:50

Oh well, well I I applaud your attempt to try something a little bit different.

Brent: 12:55

would, would you ever consider playing that to a regional? I mean, you, you said deck is trash, but it sounds like you had time problems, but yeah, I don't know if like,

Liam: 13:02

Yeah, no, of course, of

Brent: 13:03

minute one game deck is like the strats either even at a regional, like

Liam: 13:08

No qualms with that. I, I played pt

Brent: 13:12

Yeah. I mean, I, like, I recognize maybe that's totally fine. We Wouldn't be the first time, but also wouldn't be the first time it's made us sad.

Liam: 13:20

I mean, the, the deck would've to be better. It, it would've to be better. But I, yeah, I, I like xray. I like me. I, I I think me's really underutilized as like a, a slow deck. Like, it, it's always built for maximum aggression. But I like. You have a, you have a 310 hitpoint Pokemon, and it, it self heals. It's like, it's pretty good and like, you never bench anything that dies to Iron Hands or anything, like, you're, you can slow down games really well with Mew, and I, I, I think that's a, an element that I, I wasn't really exploring this format. It kind of sucks, but you know that's an element of Mew that I like. If I could somehow make it work, there's a world I'd play it, but yeah, it sucks right now.

Brent: 14:03

Yeah. There's a lot of truth to what you're saying, though. Like, I mean, I recognize when you first came into the format, it was like the most aggressive deck, and then it bizarrely turned into a deck where you were like, this is a deck we play for Path to the Peak with, even though, like, all of our Pokémon are, like, have abilities, and they all get turned off by this. But, like, The opportunity, like, just the fact that you can use it to draw a lot of cards is kind of sort of working since it was top of mind for me just now.

Liam: 14:31

Yeah, and Mew has a lot of stuff going for it, outside just the aggressive.

Mike: 14:39

Yeah,

Brent: 14:41

So,

Mike: 14:41

played, oh,

Brent: 14:43

more question. What's the strats for this coming week? I recognize there's, I don't know about your area, Mike, but I guess it's pre release time. But there is one challenge in our area this coming weekend.

Liam: 14:56

I'm already like, I'm already fine for challenges, bro. Dude,

Brent: 14:58

we're not going to this challenge? Nice!

Liam: 15:01

like five points, man. If I win, I go XO, I get five points.

Mike: 15:06

yeah, hmm, yeah, there's no there's no cups or challenges around here this weekend because of pre releases.

Brent: 15:14

So that's how Redcap could be drawing the crowds, yo. But, is this your second pre release? I feel like you've done pre releases before. Exactly.

Mike: 15:24

the second pre release that I have been, I will be going to in the last 15 years.

Brent: 15:30

Do you feel like you've learned anything about, like is, I mean, I feel like as an outsider, my impression of pre releases is take people's money, declare victory. Is it any more complicated than that? Or like, are there things that you took away from running a pre release that you're like, this is the best practice when it comes to pre releasing?

Mike: 15:48

Not really, it was super, super chill compared to running a League Cup. Like, like I ran, the last League Cup that I ran, I did it almost entirely by myself. 60 players, whatnot, and then a pre, you know, it lasts all day. Registration started at 12, we left at like, 9pm, pre releases are like, two and a half hours.

Brent: 16:11

Right. Right. Well, and

Mike: 16:13

like, super chill, super casual, nobody

Brent: 16:15

yeah, and that's if you're like, you know what, I've decided to not do this last round anymore because it's taking too long. Like everybody's like, okay, I guess that's fine.

Mike: 16:23

yeah.

Brent: 16:23

like, nobody's that invested, right?

Mike: 16:26

It was, the one thing that was cool about it is a ton of people showed up that had never been there before, and don't go to like, any League Challenges or League Cups, they just came for the pre release and they, like, knew how to play enough that they could do the pre release, but you know, they have no interest in a more competitive thing. They're more collectors, but still know how to play the game, which I think is, which is, I think that part is cool.

Brent: 16:52

That is nice. That is nice. Alright, tell us about your challenges. We buried the lead. Sounds like you actually had some interesting tournaments.

Mike: 17:01

yeah, so I went to 1 League Cup on Sunday. I played Giratina. I have been playing Giratina to challenges, but I have mostly played Gardevoir to cups but all of the very good players in our area have been playing Gardevoir historically. Ryan Antonucci, Luke Smith KC Benik some other people. And I didn't I really want to play Gardevoir and Mirrors, so I said I'd switch to Giratina. Lo and behold, Antonucci, Luke, they both switched to Giratina as well. We all independently did it. So we all, we all played Giratina pretty much. I had a couple interesting games in Swiss. I I started 4. 0, yeah, I started 4. 0 and then I was the only 4. 0. somehow because Ryan and Luke got paired against each other around 4 and I deed. So then I got paired against Ryan, he was 3 0 1, and then I just like, dead drew, so I was 4 1, and then I, I, I deed into cut. In top 8, I played against Ryan, again, in the Giratina mirror. It was really cool there was actually a small stream for for the event. So if you can go find it it is some pretty interesting games. Game one I went up for

Brent: 18:17

know the, do you know, I, I recognize that you obviously don't know it off the top of your head. Or, you would have said it just now, but like, do you know it off the top of your head?

Mike: 18:24

it is on Twitch and I probably could find it. Yeah, it's a Goed Twitch tv slash goed twitch.

Brent: 18:34

Go and Twitch, alright.

Mike: 18:35

Yeah.'cause the store is called Garden of Earthly Delight. So Go Ed so go Ed, Twitch. So yeah, top eight Play against Ryan Gu Amir. Game 1, I go up 4 prizes, so I'm up 2 6 but I, like, whiffed the second V Star, like, setting up the second V Star, going into the Roxanne turn, but I have to, like, I felt like I just had to take the KO, because, you know, his Giratina was active and so he Roxannes me, and then I, like, just With the V Star on the next turn he busts it up, and then I can't close out the game So I lose the game after going up 2 6. Game 2 almost exactly the opposite happens Where Ryan goes up, and then I'm able to Roxanne him, but we had a really interesting very ending to the game, so I tie up the game 2 2 But the way I do it, I have to attack with my Giratina V Star, with Lost Impact, and Lost Zone 2 energy on my Giratina V Star, to leave it with only 1 energy. And I'm out of switch cards. Completely. I have, I have like 3 jet energy left, though. So I Lost Impact, go to 2 prizes, and Roxannum on that turn. He doesn't have a Giratina out, so he can't win the game that turn. But his best play, then, is to not play a Giratina down and just kind of like and just Sableye my bench Cramorant because otherwise I can just jet up my Cramorant take a KO and a Sableye and then he's like pretty much out of attackers he has a super odd left but I'll just Roxanne him again and it's pretty unlikely that he'll hit another attacker. to take his last prize, so he Sableyes my Cramorant, which is 100 percent the best play. And then it leaves me in a really awkward spot, because I can't, I don't have a switch card, so I can't switch into my Sableye and attack with it, and my Cramorant just died, I have one Super Rod left, but it's in my deck, and so I'd have to Roxanne And then, hit the super rod, and then like, flower selecting into the Cremorant, which is pretty unlikely. So, my best play ends up being, jet up my Sableye, countercatcher his Manaphy on the bench, Roxanne, him to 2, and Scratch. So Scratch puts his Manaphy at 50, and then he has a Comfey on the bench, so I can loss mine for 120 for 2 prizes. If he just, but If he hits just an energy off the Roxanne, then he can just retreat and Sableye me for the win. But he does not hit that off the Roxanne. So the scratch damage comes in Clutch, and I'm able to Lost Mine for the win, and then we only have about five minutes left for game three, and I just drew a little bit better than him, and able to be up on prizes at the end. So, it was really fun. Playing Giratina was great. In top four, I play against a local Pokka parent. Maybe you know them, Brent, Liam, I don't know Amy Jones, who has a daughter named Karis Jones. Karis is a pretty strong senior player. I don't know, did you ever play against her, Liam, in seniors?

Liam: 21:47

No, I don't think so.

Mike: 21:49

No, because she, I think they're from like Delaware or even maybe even Pennsylvania. I'm not a hundred percent sure But they come to some of our events not all of them, but I play against Aimee and Aimee has been on a tear recently. She Day 2'd She's only played two regionals this year. She decided to start playing kind of like halfway through the year I guess and she Day 2'd one of her regionals and she's won like two or three other League Cups And got in like a couple seconds, so I decided earlier this year that I was not going to go for the World's Invite. And so I just, I gave the win to Amy, so that she could have a chance at winning the event. And also, she ended up losing in the finals. Also worth noting, this is the League Cup that got a little bit famous on Twitter this weekend, because the winner of the League Cup was a player named Cody, playing Chiempow, who's had a decklist error. And was not able to play his Bidoofs in Top Cut, and he won the event with no Bidoofs in Xi'an Pao. So shoutout to Cody for

Brent: 23:00

It's great to draw like fire. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Mike: 23:05

I think if you go watch that, I didn't watch the finals on Twitch, but I heard that he was just hitting everything in the finals, so.

Brent: 23:15

That's

Mike: 23:16

And Liam, we talked about the Chi and Patina matchup last week or two weeks ago, whatever. Cody beat two Tinas in Top 8 and Top 4 without Bibarel! So maybe, maybe I'm just cooked, man. Maybe the matchup is just so incredibly favored.

Brent: 23:32

Obviously. Obviously, there's no other explanation.

Mike: 23:36

So I had a good time. I, I really enjoyed playing T9, some really fun games, and I was able to help someone get closer to the world's invite, which

Brent: 23:46

How close is she?

Mike: 23:46

kind of I'm not 100 percent sure. I'd say probably at least 300 points. And she's only got the one regionals finish. So, and, and Kairos pretty much goes to everything.

Brent: 23:56

Well, I was about to say, obviously, the next question is, Did she, did she register for EUIC?

Mike: 24:02

She did, yeah, yeah, yeah, she did.

Brent: 24:04

Ahhhhhh!

Mike: 24:06

She got in there.

Brent: 24:08

Absolute betrayal. Betrayal.

Mike: 24:12

So that kind of got me thinking actually when I was coming home from the League Cup. Who are some of the Best Poke parents that play the game right now, and historically.

Brent: 24:28

I think the answer for right now is probably Carson Washer's dad?

Mike: 24:33

Hmm.

Brent: 24:33

Hasn't he day tuned like twice this year, Liam?

Liam: 24:37

Yeah. He's pretty good.

Brent: 24:40

Yeah, he's really good.

Mike: 24:42

James Washer. He dated once this year at Charlotte, twice last year.

Brent: 24:49

Gotcha, gotcha.

Mike: 24:51

That's pretty good. Do you was he, like, going for a Worlds invite last

Liam: 24:56

Yeah. I think he got it last year.

Mike: 24:57

you think he got it? Okay, nice. That's cool. Where are they from?

Liam: 25:03

I have no clue.

Mike: 25:05

Not sure.

Brent: 25:06

Are

Mike: 25:06

I know

Liam: 25:07

Down south somewhere.

Mike: 25:09

down south Cliff has, is he still going for his world to vote this year?

Liam: 25:14

sir.

Mike: 25:15

Yeah? Okay.

Liam: 25:17

He farms me in all the locals, bro. I'm like 0 4 against him or something, man.

Mike: 25:22

Cliff didn't die. Okay, he's got the, he's got one day, too, this year, but hopefully he could, he can get there. I know I would, Brent, when I brought this up, Brent asked, like, who are you? Some of the old people, I think probably the, the GOAT, Pocodad, or Pocoparent ever, is probably Jimmy Ballard. He got second at the World Championships in 2006 and he got, what, you didn't know that Liam?

Liam: 25:50

No. No. No.

Mike: 25:52

Do you know who Jimmy Ballard is now in the game? Okay, he is the organ, him and Vince Krekler are the organizers of all of like the, the Midwest. Events. So like what are they? Day 2? Day 2. Yeah, Day 2 events is Jimmy and Vince. So they like run, run all of those. But Jimmy, Jimmy was a a really good player. He had two kids that played the game back when I was a kid. His daughter is my age, and he has a son that's a, a bit younger. And so they got into the game first, obviously, and then Jimmy started playing and was really, really good. Yeah, like, fantastic player. And the way that I'm defining Pokeparent is any Parent that got into the game'cause of their kid. So like Chip Richie does not count as a poker parent in, in, in this discussion.

Brent: 26:43

So, I guess the question is, when he's over 40, will it count? Like, you know, how many world championships does this kid have to win before he's considered a Pokeparent?

Mike: 26:54

That's a good question.

Brent: 26:56

yeah, we're, we're gonna, let's defer that, that question, but I, so I do have a special treat for you though, Mike.

Mike: 27:02

Hmm.

Brent: 27:02

While, while he is not here, because as we all know, he is a recurring slacker, Brit Pybas saw you put out the cry, and sent me a long note. And, I have some, I have some old heads for you, and you gotta tell me if you know these people. So, here's what Brit said. Roberto Arenas is always the sleeper dad pick for me. Top 16 2010 Nats got a Worlds invite on ELO that year. Florida player at the height of Florida is the hardest area with Chuck and Jason also moving to Florida that season. Both the Suns placed at Worlds multiple times. Juan Pablo got second in Juniors. LuxChomp player, which as you know for Brit, that's code for you're the GOAT.

Mike: 27:43

I don't really. I don't really know who that is. I'm sure like back in the day, like I would have kind of like vaguely known,

Brent: 27:52

right, I assume Juan Pablo Serenas, who got second in juniors in 20, at some point, I guess,

Mike: 28:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just looked it

Brent: 28:01

you probably know, or

Mike: 28:03

Mm hmm.

Brent: 28:05

you're a baller.

Mike: 28:06

Nuov. Yeah, Nuov. Okay. That, the name does like sound familiar, but yeah, I don't know, I don't know them personally for sure.

Brent: 28:16

to the discussion.

Mike: 28:18

Okay, nice. Would you ever, like, Brent, you've, while we're having this discussion, you've never really played, though you do play.

Brent: 28:26

I've played at a wide variety of city championships, and locals, where they're like, we needed one more to get the top eight.

Mike: 28:34

Mm hmm.

Brent: 28:35

Um, the, you know, I think the, the last moment where I seriously, like tried competing, Liam's heard this story a million times,

Liam: 28:46

I love this story.

Brent: 28:48

yeah, what was, what was the, what was the deck that I played, Liam, was it,

Liam: 28:54

I think you're playing

Brent: 28:55

oh, I, I was, oh, okay, I was playing Donphan Raichu. This was, I, like, I was playing a list that, like, Brit was selling on six prizes and, and it seemed like, it seemed like a good call for the format, and I, I was, like, top seed, let's see, I was top seed going into top eight, Because, I got paired down and had to play it out. So, so when I say I got top seed, there's like a little bit of a disclaimer there. But, like, I beat Dean, I beat a bunch of very good players. And I get to, did I win top 8? I think I won my top 8. And then in top 4, I got paired against Jimmy Pendarvis. And Jimmy was playing defensive Aveltal. And

Mike: 29:40

Mm hmm.

Brent: 29:44

65 minutes to finish game 1, but he absolutely had me in the spin cycle the entire game. Like, yeah, I mean, there was no question that Jimmy was obliterating me that entire game. It just took a really, really long time because he was like, making sure that I never gotta write you out, Like, he was bossing stuff and then playing, like, trump card to, like, get all his bosses back, like, it was the most dragged out, horrendous game, because, you know, Yveltal was resistant to Donphan, so the only way I could win was, like, getting my, like, 2 2 Raichu line out, and Like, the second that he bossed a Raichu, he just stopped doing everything and was like, I gotta get all my bosses back to the deck.

Mike: 30:41

So did you, like, come away from that game feeling a certain way?

Brent: 30:45

Absolutely traumatized. Like, like, all the other games I was like, we're managing the situation, we're managing the situation. But, but like. Jimmy absolutely put me in the blender. It was brutal. Brutal. I just, I'm amazed that you guys can, like, handle the stress, you know? Like, I think the amazing thing about PokéParents who are able to play is I don't know how you can, like you know, you have to be responsible for your child, you're at, like, some event, and you're invested in your child's success and happiness and, like, You know, making sure they're having a successful tournament, and all that stuff. And, and then you're also able to focus on your own gameplay. And if you're not, like, 100 percent dialed in, like, I mean, what chance would a person who's not 100 percent dialed in have against you or Liam? Like, no chance. Like, you have to be yeah, you can't be playing casual. You gotta be, like, really thinking it out. And, that regard, I'm like, oh my god, it seems like competing is so stressful, I would never want to do that. Like I look at that, you know, I, I, I like, like, Nabil Hyatt's, the classic Nabil Hyatt move is play four rounds, B2 2, and then be like, I'm tired, I'm gonna drop. And

Mike: 32:01

I mean

Brent: 32:01

that speaks to me.

Mike: 32:04

I mean that's like the biggest thing in general as I get older, it's just these are like very long days, period but I think the added challenge for parents that have, you know, juniors or seniors is that They have six rounds or seven rounds and you have nine. And so like, what do you really do? So

Liam: 32:27

got a little kid and you gotta tell him, you know, wait a few hours.

Brent: 32:29

like, for me, it's not even that, like, I think, like, the thing I think about is, like hey, if, if I'm hungry, and there's a round starting now, like, whatever, right? I'm an adult, it's fine. If, if my kid says, hey, I'm hungry, and I have a round starting now, like, I have to make a decision, you know? Like, like, there are now conflicting priorities, like, what am I going to do, because it's it's very hard to tell a, like, you know, 9 year old, suck it up!

Mike: 33:05

Yep.

Brent: 33:07

And like, you can tell them suck it up, but then if they go and lose, you're like,

Mike: 33:12

Yeah. It's your

Brent: 33:13

you're like, I just told my kid to suck it up and he promptly lost! Like, I mean, Liam will tell you the amount of times when I was like, Why don't we eat some, like, protein or fats instead of just, like, fast moving carbs before, like, this round? Will you just take, like, two bites of, like, beef jerky or something like that instead of potato chips? Like, you know, I mean, as an adult and as, like You know, I think whatever, evolving society, all that stuff, we all recognize, like, nutrition plays a really important part in performance, like, athletic conditioning plays an important part in performance, right? I don't know if I ever showed it to you, Mike, but I know I said it to Liam probably a million times. There was the ESPN article about

Liam: 33:58

Everyone's doing this.

Brent: 33:59

and their, like, workout regimen and diet, where they were like, chess players over the course of a day at a, like, top level tournament lose, like, two pounds.

Mike: 34:09

Hmm.

Brent: 34:10

And, like, like, they're just it's, I mean, you guys know, because you guys, we just talked about it, right, at the end of nine rounds, you can be like, I sat there all day, it's exhausting,

Mike: 34:22

Yep.

Brent: 34:23

right, you're just beaten down, and, like, as a result, like, cardiovascular fitness plays a role, like, whether or not your nutrition is on point plays a role, as, as the, I mean, the most common, like, meme y tweet about how do I get ready, I'm going to my first regionals, hydration plays a role, Like,

Mike: 34:41

Mm-Hmm.

Brent: 34:41

so, like, the problem is, I mean, a six year old you're a junior they feel fine until they don't, and when they don't, it's, like, catastrophic. So you have to be, like, managing that situation. That's what, like, parents do, you know? Like, I don't expect this seven year old to know that he needs to eat because he's going to be hungry in half an hour, like, before he goes off to do this hour thing. Like, it's my job to know.

Mike: 35:07

Right,

Brent: 35:08

Cause three years ago I knew that like, he's gotta take a nap now or he gets cranky. And he didn't know that, he kept telling me he was fine.

Mike: 35:16

Hehehe.

Brent: 35:16

I knew, I'm the parent, like, it's the parent's job. So there you go.

Mike: 35:23

Here we go.

Brent: 35:25

Mike, any big

Mike: 35:26

While we're Hehehe, I was gonna say, while we're talking about Pokeparent stuff good time to announce that I will soon be a Pokeparent myself. This is part of the reason that I've said that I have stopped going to Major events, or don't plan to go to any more major events for the rest of the year, not going for my World's Invite. My wife is due in May, pretty much right before NAIC, so I will be taking care of a baby, really excited. Hopefully one day they will play Pokemon, and I will go through all of these same challenges that you went through, Brent.

Brent: 36:05

So, so, have you thought about, like, what your strategy will be for Poki parenting?

Mike: 36:12

I mean, the first not really, because the first strategy thing that I have to figure out is how to Convince my wife to you know, make sure that they play Pokemon. There's going to be a lot of conversation about, you know, what, what things do we prioritize? You know, she wants, she wants the kid to play piano, for example. I'm down for them to play piano, but I also want them to play some Pokemon, too. So, yeah. Gonna have to figure those things out. Which things do we push? Which things do we not push? Or, I feel like, I feel like I'm not gonna like push too hard, but I want to at least expose them to to things and then Encourage them, at least a little bit, to continue even when things get tough. Which I think is the challenge with, with like anything that a kid does, is like, when playing piano, or playing soccer, or Pokemon, once, once you get over the novelty of it, and then, you, you want them To, you know, push through the hard part of getting better and not being, not being great at it, but wanting to get better, like that, like that's the part that I think is tough and I, you know, I guess you just kind of like learn how to handle that and encourage as a parent as you do it.

Brent: 37:30

So, so, I mean, you haven't, you haven't, like, you're not in the thick of it yet, and I'm sure, like, it's just like, like a boxer, like, once you get punched in the face, all your plans are, like, all those plans were great. But have you thought about how you're gonna be, like I mean, despite the not going for my Worlds invite, not going to NAIC, not going to Hawaii, Like, I assume you're still envisioning, like, you know, the weekly commitment to redcaps, like, you got a whole new wave of priorities coming at you. Have you thought about how you juggle all of those things?

Mike: 38:01

Well, Redcaps is being pushed to someone else. At least for the, at least for the immediate, yeah. And then, I don't know, I guess we will need to talk about what, what the podcast looks like and whatnot, because you guys also have changes, you know, Liam, you're going to be going off to college and whatnot, so we're going to have to figure out what, if anything changes for, for that but, you know, I'm really lucky my wife's a doctor, it's you know, financially it's not, like, too much of a burden for me to not work if, if that's the, Path that we decide that's still kind of, kind of up in the air right

Brent: 38:40

Stay at home dad.

Mike: 38:43

Yeah I mean at the very least I'll be staying home for and not working for a bit longer than she is, and, and kind of the question is whether that's, you know, a year? Is it three months? Is it two years? I don't know. We're gonna have to kind of figure that out. So. Very lucky to have that flexibility and kinda to feel how things are as we go forward.

Brent: 39:06

Right, is your plan to really, really take time, or are you going to be working from home with baby?

Mike: 39:13

We're both planning on, we're both planning on taking off this summer. So, baby is due like end of May, beginning of June. And so, she's gonna go back in September for sure. And then, I will, may or may not go back also in September. We, we did just look at preschools, daycares last week. We're gonna get our name on the list for one of them, and then

Liam: 39:39

you have to get on a list?

Mike: 39:41

I mean, kind of,

Brent: 39:42

don't know.

Liam: 39:43

Wait, like,

Mike: 39:46

like, kinda, yeah, like, one of the places.

Liam: 39:49

Multiple years out, right? Like I

Mike: 39:51

Well, I mean, not multiple. Like, if I wanted to send them in the fall, for example, like, if I

Brent: 39:56

Yeah, no, he's talking about like a, a daycare that all, that like, like, they don't have like, I guess there's still preschools out there, but like daycares are preschools, Liam. Liam thinks of it as daycare.

Mike: 40:07

Yeah,

Liam: 40:07

see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Bro, I,

Brent: 40:11

Preschool,

Liam: 40:12

don't know why, I thought you were like, trying to register them for like, like the school system for like, like kindergarten, you were like, signing up for kindergarten.

Mike: 40:18

No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, just like, just like for the fall. But, like, the school that we would want to send them to in the fall said that, like, if we sign them up You know right now or within the next month or two, no problem. But if you know if it was July and we wanted to send them in September, probably not gonna happen. So we do have to kind of like

Liam: 40:39

Yeah. 22nd, I think.

Mike: 40:40

Make it make somewhat of a decision in the next couple months.

Brent: 40:44

Super close to you?

Mike: 40:47

Super close to the house that we're gonna move to.

Brent: 40:49

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very exciting. I, you know, so my, I mean, I, I hear that, and I think if, if you're contemplating it. Yeah. Mike Fouchet's stay at home dad, that's the perfect time to, like, build a culture of pokey parenting, because, like, moms have pilates and stuff. If you're like, I'm not doing pilates, but I am going to this, like, league challenge, there we go. Now, but that's, yeah, yeah, like, you know, the problem is if you were, like, trying to run a league challenge and the baby cries, this is true story. So, like, I used to, like, the first year or two, Liam probably remembers this, I was volunteering, I was like, I was like Rigan WrestleOff's dad, right? I was like Steve. Like, I was volunteering while my child was competing, and I realized I could no longer do a disservice to TOs by volunteering, because, like, just at the end of the day, they were a distant second from a priority perspective.

Mike: 41:47

mm hmm.

Brent: 41:49

my kids would come over to tell me how their round went, and I would be like, I know we'd be collecting these slips, but I gotta hear this for two minutes, you know? And I was just like, I'm the worst volunteer, like,

Mike: 42:03

Fuhuhu.

Brent: 42:03

on the one hand you know, I mean, anybody that's been a TO or volunteered or been involved in a regional, like, it's great that, I mean, the compensation is way better than anybody else that doesn't do well in day two. Like, you're like, we locked in a variety of packs, and like, it's a great way to you know, I mean, if your kid needs a lot of Pokemon cards to make his day, do what it does. Like, it's a great way to make you feel like you're somehow making this trip to Peoria, or Charlotte, or Indianapolis, like, seem vaguely self sustaining. But like, I was just like, man, I I've, I don't want them to feel like I'm the worst, so I can't do this.

Mike: 42:48

Fuhuhu. Fuhuhu.

Brent: 42:50

I, you know, like, saying I have self respect would be too strong a word, but like, it was kinda like that? I don't know.

Mike: 42:58

Well, it would have been interesting, like, Liam, you probably got to the age where you were, could be much more independent, probably over COVID, right? And so, like, you could, like, maybe, maybe if, like, there was more IRL tournaments there, you could have seen, like, more of the transition as well, Brent, for yourself. But since it's only just been, like, a year, basically, you were probably like, eh,

Brent: 43:23

I mean, his last, his last year as a senior was the first, like, non COVID year, you know?

Mike: 43:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lost,

Brent: 43:29

so yeah, you're, you're absolutely right about that. I think it was like, there, there was a kind of key transitional period that, that was like a little bit missed, you know.

Mike: 43:39

yeah, for sure.

Brent: 43:40

And, and also I think there's, there's a difference between 1 and 2. Like, when, when it's 1, it's like, it's man to man. When it's 2, like, you gotta go zone a little bit. You know, like, like, right, like, it's, you know, I mean, in some ways it's double, in some ways it's less than double, right, like, lunch is a scalable thing, we're just gonna buy lunch for everybody, here we go, but, like, there's also, you know aspects of, like, it just dramatically raises the amount of complication, you know?

Mike: 44:10

Well, and especially, like, if Liam's in Seniors, Walker's in Juniors, the timing might not be exactly right,

Brent: 44:16

Yeah,

Mike: 44:17

that's not always gonna line up.

Brent: 44:18

Or, or

Mike: 44:19

I do

Brent: 44:19

person gets a buy and the other person's competing and you're like, okay we gotta like, we gotta figure out how to keep this person busy, we gotta keep track of this other person, like, yeah there, there are, there's a little bit of like scale complexity even though like, yeah there's, there's some economies of scale too, so it's, it's weird.

Mike: 44:37

One thing that I heard recently as a good strategy for Pokeparents is to buy that static seating, that, you know, like, if you do want to play, then you at least always have one place. Where your where your kid can go to. And I know you, you and Nabil kind of set that up. And, and lots of parents just set that up naturally. But if you do want to play, it is a way to, to kind of do

Brent: 44:59

right, right,

Mike: 45:00

cool.

Brent: 45:01

but, but then, but then you're like, am I really spending more money on me for this tournament? That shit gets static CD for my kid and then you're getting static CD for everybody and then you're like, what are we doing here? We've lost our minds. You know, I already flew three people to Peoria. What am I doing? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mike: 45:21

Alright, well, this has taken most of the time. We can, we, we were gonna maybe talk a little bit about Utrecht and Vancouver. But maybe we can do that next week, cause Vancouver is Which weekend is 22nd?

Brent: 45:33

still we still got time. We still got time to solve Vancouver thankfully because, you know, last report we were on Mew with with Lux.

Mike: 45:44

I sent Liam my Tina list and I said, this is what you should play? He's like, eh, maybe.

Brent: 45:51

I I, you know, I recognize Liam's

Liam: 45:53

like, he sends me like a pretty stock 60. No, he sends me the stock 60.

Mike: 45:58

Right.

Liam: 45:58

you know, it's solid. Love you.

Brent: 46:01

Yeah, yeah, Liam is always

Liam: 46:03

Love you at this point.

Brent: 46:04

to entertain himself at these tournaments

Liam: 46:06

Flynn Martin.

Brent: 46:07

do well at the tournaments. And he's like, why can't I have both? It's tough. It's tough to do both.

Mike: 46:15

Did you guys sign up for Orlando, by the way? Yeah?

Brent: 46:20

Yeah, and Indianapolis, Liam and I were discussing today whether or not we were going to be doing Indianapolis live registration on the pod. But, guys, it is currently 5. 58 Eastern Standard Time. We got an hour to kill before

Mike: 46:32

Okay, that's gonna say, is it in two minutes or an hour and two minutes?

Brent: 46:37

You know, we got an hour and two minutes, so we're timing things perfectly.

Mike: 46:42

very nice. Well, hopefully, it should be fine to get in, but

Brent: 46:46

Alright,

Mike: 46:47

luck.

Brent: 46:48

Mike, is there any conversation about Pokemon schemed names for your child?

Mike: 46:56

Well, so we are having a girl, and I did look at basically every single girl Pokemon card

Brent: 47:05

That's what I like to hear, Mike! That is absolutely doing it right!

Mike: 47:10

Melony, Clara, Peonya, everything. I looked at all of them. Nothing really. I,

Brent: 47:17

Selina

Mike: 47:18

did. I did suggest a couple, and there was a couple that Kelly was like, that's not too bad, but I don't think we're gonna end up going with any of them. But yes, I very much did that as an exercise.

Brent: 47:31

did you tell her that they were Pokemon names, or did you have to conceal that information? And,

Mike: 47:39

normal ones, I did not. Like Cynthia, for example, you know, that's a pretty normal name. But, you know, Marnie. Eh. She was like, where'd you get that from? And I was like, eh, that's a Pokemon name. And like,

Liam: 47:55

how cool, like,

Mike: 47:56

like,

Liam: 47:57

impacts of like, if you name your kid like, Volcanian or something, like, yeah,

Brent: 48:02

like, Elon Musk's children, yeah,

Liam: 48:06

yeah, kind of, but like, you know, they, they get Musk's kids, right?

Brent: 48:12

they already have enough trauma in their lives. Well, I mean, like, I think we can all agree, Alex Wilson's a goat.

Mike: 48:20

What, what did he name, did he name his kid

Brent: 48:22

His son is Ash. Yeah.

Mike: 48:26

I didn't know that.

Liam: 48:27

Oh, that's too tough, that's so wicked, oh my god.

Brent: 48:31

Yeah. Yeah. So you should not, you should not think that that is not an absolutely amazing opportunity because I've already seen people cash in on it and it seems like it is an absolute winner.

Mike: 48:42

The more serious discussions that we've had is, you know, Perhaps making the nursery themed around Pokemon stuff. We're kind of going back and forth between, yeah, we're going back and forth right now between pandas and Pokemon. Pandas is like Kelly's favorite animal, that'd be pretty cute and Pokemon. So it might end up being a mix, we'll see.

Brent: 49:03

Oh, I think, I don't know, I'm feeling, I'm feeling really, really good about the making a Pokemon. That seems like it's the absolute strats.

Liam: 49:13

I, I, I can already hear this kid in like 15 years like, oh my god, bro. My first memory? Pokemon.

Brent: 49:21

But, you know, but, so here's, here's my theory though, like, like, Mike was saying he's got to kind of navigate how to, how to introduce his, his daughter to the game and like when he's allowed to do all that stuff, but like, my feeling is, this is like, like. I feel like you always hear about the children of musicians, like, have musical, like, have musical skills as well, because I feel like they're around

Mike: 49:45

been like, incepted,

Brent: 49:51

dad might not be cool, so they're like, their dad is cool. I mean, no lie, like 7 or 8 years ago, my son said to me, so, were you like really cool back in the day? And I was like, no, I was not, but I appreciate the fact that you thought that it might be true. I love you so much, my child. But, but like, they're around this guy that's super cool and he's playing the guitar all day. And like And, and he's got probably five guitars sitting around in his living room because he, that's what he does. And the kid is like, I want to pick up this guitar, and then he's like, and then he like, shows him a little thing, shows him a little thing, shows him a little thing. And then they're playing together, and the kid is loving it because he's playing with dad, and the dad is loving it because he's playing with kid. And they're playing together, and they're playing together, and like, that's how the magic happens. I, I look at that and I'm like It will be just like that for Pokemon, assuming that you have time in your life for things that you take an interest in. I found there was no time in my life for anything that I cared about.

Mike: 50:49

Well kind of related Kelly asked me the other day, she was like, what are you going to do if our kid hates math? And I looked at her, I was like, like that's not possible. Like it's just actually, actually impossible for them to hate math. Like, just

Brent: 51:04

they're going to be brought up learning the joy of math.

Mike: 51:08

Yeah, exactly, I was like, they might, math might not be their favorite thing, I'm very okay with that, but it's like, actually impossible for them to hate it,

Brent: 51:16

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike: 51:17

even, not even the realm of possibility,

Brent: 51:19

they'll be constantly being asked by their dad like interesting things about, like, how to think about the world and from a math perspective, how could they not be loving it?

Mike: 51:30

exactly, exactly,

Brent: 51:32

Yeah. I mean, they're gonna, they're gonna love math. They're gonna love Pokemon. They're gonna be like, Hey Dad, let's play a game together, and, and you're gonna be like, this is the greatest. session I've ever had, even though I learned nothing. But, you know,

Mike: 51:48

best friend. My best friend has, my best friend growing up, he has a couple kids, and he said that one of his favorite things is to play, like, they're just old enough now to play video games with him, and like, he, he, it's like, he says it's the most fun thing and so, like, if I can do that with video games or, or, or, you know, with Pokemon, that'll be amazing, for

Liam: 52:11

My dad gave me a dead controller.

Brent: 52:13

Yeah, yeah, so here's what I'll say, he's got to really enjoy that while he can, because it's a narrow window. I mean, yeah, my children, I knew Liam was going to say that. The story my children remember for many years is, I would play Madden on the Playstation, and they would be like, I want to play too, and I would hand them a controller and not turn it on. Cause like, what are they gonna do, right? Like take control

Mike: 52:38

And you would think,

Brent: 52:39

like, he was like four, it was just gonna be offside violations every single play. Like, we wouldn't even play a play, it would just be offside violation, offside violation, offside violation, offside violation, right? So,

Mike: 52:53

old were you? How old were you when you found this out? Liam? Yeah,

Brent: 53:00

so, so, then there becomes a moment where they can play with you, and then there rapidly becomes a moment where Some combination

Mike: 53:09

They don't want to play

Brent: 53:10

you're over, well, you're over the hill and they're better, right? Like, I mean, look at Walker, by the time they're 15, be better at video games than you. Because you'll be 15 years older than you are now, which is probably, you're no longer at your peak, and they are absolutely peaking, and then they'll be like, playing this game with you is not super fun, right? Liam built a bunch of actual physical decks. We now have like five actual decks in our house right now. Is that post rotation testing Liam? Or is it just Yeah, it's just, it's just current decks. Yeah.

Liam: 53:45

Dude. I, I swear to god, dude. Even people going to Vancouver, everybody's just like, oh, test post rotation, test post rotation. They're cooked.

Brent: 53:53

yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,

Liam: 53:54

I'm gonna farm you.

Brent: 53:55

it's, the moral story is PT CGL is about to be useless to us all unless you actually are like testing with someone. Right. But like, I mean, I think we've talked before about how. I used to play a lot, and now, I'm going to try to convince Liam to play some games with me this weekend for fun, because he's built a couple of in real life decks and we could play, but like, that's all it will be for Liam. Yeah, look at the look on Liam's face tells you all you need to know about the quality of that testing in Liam's mind. He's like, that, you know, he might do it as a fun thing he could do with his dad, but he's not going to be doing it to get better at Pokemon. Because, he's too good, right? Like, Walker, every once in a while, will be like, okay, I'll play Fortnite with you, dad. And, and, we,

Mike: 54:39

humor you.

Brent: 54:40

yeah, and what we do is we tell Walker, he's only allowed to play with one gun, it's the worst gun in the game. He can't use any other gun until he finds that gun. And like, he still kills like twice as many people as I do, because like, what do I have to contribute to this, you know? So, so, you gotta, you gotta enjoy that moment where you're better than them at some things. And recognize that the moments where you're the same, it's extremely fleeting, and absolutely the best times. I think, I think actually during COVID was, so we didn't really get to indulge it as much as we might have liked to, the moment where we had probably similar basketball skills, and now I'm still like, stronger? But they're just so much faster than me. It's tough. It's tough.

Mike: 55:30

Oh, wow. Alright guys, we'll be back next week, we definitely talk about Vancouver and, and how Uhtrich plays into all this, and we'll talk about whether or not Lieb and I played some for fun games, and what I learned decks that he might play at Vancouver from all that the John Palserer outro.