Track 1: 0:05

Welcome to the Trash Ranch. It's the only podcast about the Pokegear trading card game. It's amazing to wake up to the fact that there's only one podcast about the Pokegear trading card game. Uh um, we love to see it. Is a hundred percent Liam Halliburton, me, Mike Fouchet, the three of us all here, ready to talk about stuff. There are no others. Uh uh, no five star reviews, but if you left a five star review. We would read on the pod. A friend of mine reached out and by friend, I mean Caden's dad reached out to me and said, Hey, I heard we need you to Lele we that you've gotta get reviews to make your podcast do a thing. So I'm starting up a podcast about ai. So

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 0:51

Ooh, you sound like AI

Track 1: 0:53

I've always told people, you should leave a review for. Like I heard there's an incredible podcaster that you know well, you could leave a review for him. So apparently word is getting around that leaving a review is a thing that helps people find pods. And given that this is the only podcast about the Pokegear trading, you definitely wanna help people find it. That's the thing we could do anyway, way too much said about all that stuff

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 1:18

hearing that, Liam, you're hearing that too, right?

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 1:21

Yes.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 1:22

Okay, so Brent every like 20 seconds or so, you go into like machine voice mode.

Track 1: 1:28

You know what?

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 1:28

it's like all static kind

Track 1: 1:30

This is gonna sound crazy, but I am, I am at Amazon Ops today, and apparently we have bad internet I, the last time I was in Boulder, I recorded the show from my hotel and I dropped like a million times. I dropped like twice. But, uh, I, I, so I'm, I'm a little bit of a loss. Um.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 1:49

Okay.

Track 1: 1:50

You guys have turned into a machine once or twice for me as well, and I was just hoping that it's all gonna come out in the wash because theoretically the podcast is getting recorded on a server somewhere,

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 1:58

Mm hmm.

Track 1: 1:59

but no guarantees. Alright, with that in mind, I'm gonna let Liam and Mike do all the talking. Talk about rotation guys.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 2:08

Well, uh, so we found out, I don't know, maybe a week ago, but I think before our last podcast episode that we know when the next set is coming out. I don't remember the exact dates off the top of my head, but I do know that it is in March slash late March. So it's actually pretty similar to the timing. Last year, um, where the very first event or the set will be legal is EUIC, which is like the first weekend in April, I believe. Um, so yeah, so like pre-release has happened during the month of March. The set becomes legal at the very end of March or the beginning of April, which means that presumably that's also when rotation will happen. So I know we're getting like some, you know, crappy Or not crappy, depending on if you're a collector or a player, uh, mini set in January, probably the, the, like, whatever the shiny set is. Um, but that's presumably not gonna change the game very much. So we definitely, we probably have this format more or less through March. Um, so it's actually pretty similar to last year where this format will be a very long. long format. So Liam, what do you think of that?

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 3:31

I am good with it, bro. Uh, I think the format's pretty good. Everybody just like to complain. It's.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 3:37

I know. I think the format's pretty good too, but I just think it sucks when. it's the same thing for so long, right? Like November, December, March, or November, December, January, February, uh, March. You basically have a five month format. Uh, maybe a little bit less, but about that

Track 1: 3:57

How would they just ban list VIP now and then like let the format roll until rotation. That'd be great.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 4:05

that would be great.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 4:07

Um, it's fine. I dunno, may, maybe if you're like going to more tournaments or something, it's like, it gets like more stale, more quickly, I guess. But I, format's fine. I don't, I don't think there's like any changes that, like, I'm like, you know, desperately awaiting. I, the games are good. The format's got a lot of cards in it. A lot of interesting matchups go with it.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 4:31

we will, uh, we'll see how we feel in like February See if we, uh, still feel the same way because Yeah, I do agree. I think the, the, the games are pretty interesting right now. There's a lot of good decks, there's a lot of close matchups. Um, but things can get stale just because even if the game is good, just because you're, you're doing the same thing over and over and over again. So we'll see. Um. related to just like events and and whatnot. Um, I saw two things about CAPS for upcoming tournaments today. One of them is the Charlotte Cap is just kind of like, keeps going up. Uh, we were, we were just talking about it in our chat. NATO pointed it out that it's could be like What did he say? Like 2,400 masters? Like That's crazy. So that's, that has a potential to be like a, uh, maybe the biggest regional of the year. I, uh, uh, I don't know. But then conversely, uh, Knoxville registration happens tomorrow night and they just released their initial cap. And TCG Masters is 1200 so that's gonna probably sell out very, very quickly. and the other numbers are like not that big. Like the VGC has a total of just under 600 players go, has 160 and then junior seniors is 2 56 combined. So if that's like, if you, the reallocation is not gonna be that much. Um,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:02

Yeah. Yeah.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:05

so We will see how tomorrow night goes. If you're, if you're listening to this, it's probably tonight, uh, Tuesday, December or Wednesday, December 6th is, is when registration goes live. Uh, gonna be a blood bath out there,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:22

Wait, so is that, that's like 2,400 TCG Masters like

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:27

That's, that's for Charlotte, for Knoxville. 1200 TCG Masters. Yeah.

Track 1: 6:32

I mean, what, what's the biggest tournament in history? How big? How big was NAIC last year or

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:37

I think NAIC was

Track 1: 6:38

is the biggest.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:38

like, just barely 2000.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:41

Yeah.

Track 1: 6:42

Yeah. So like, is this gonna be the biggest Pokegear tournament ever?

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:48

might be.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 6:48

let's see, Toronto or Peoria was Okay. No, Pittsburgh was the biggest one so far at 1778. At least for this year. Um. Let's see, NAIC was, NAIC was like just under 1900.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 7:05

I

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 7:06

if, so, if we beat 1900, I think that is the, that's the number to beat, I think we will

Track 1: 7:15

you know, I, I do, do you think Knoxville is keeping it at 1200 in recognition of the fact that they can't find a way to get 2000 people to Knoxville in a weekend like Knoxville?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 7:29

Knoxville. That's fair. Charlotte is a much more, uh, international airport than Knoxville for

Track 1: 7:34

Exactly, exactly. If you wanna know what the, what's the difference between Pittsburgh and then Peoria? The difference is airports.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 7:40

Yeah. though Peoria was almost as big, but I guess a lot more people can drive to Peoria. Yeah.

Track 1: 7:47

yeah,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 7:50

Um.

Track 1: 7:50

yeah. They get the upside of many people can drive and the downside of, oh my God, there's no way to get to Peoria if you do not live near Peoria. I.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 7:59

Yeah, I, I wanna say I think it's like pretty crazy that we're hitting, I guess over 2000 now. Um, maybe, um, given that like at the same time last year, I think we were hitting like a thousand player master tournaments for like the first time. And that was like, that was like mind blowing. Now we're, now we're at almost double that. It's pretty crazy.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 8:20

yeah. Let's see, like Knoxville last year was 1100. I think Florida was Florida. Maybe the not Florida was the biggest one last year and that was just under 1500 and Yeah, but you're right. Like a year ago, All the first regionals of the year, Baltimore, Peoria, Toronto, were like just barely over a thousand. So like we were just hitting a thousand and now we're, we're knocking on the door of 2000 in a year. Yeah. That's crazy. It's a double, double in one year.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 8:52

Yeah, it's a prize pool, bro.

Track 1: 8:57

That said, yeah, that was like, that was the obvious thing on the tip of everyone's tongue there. Prize pools.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 9:05

Um, so those are, those are some of the big events in the horizon. We are gonna talk a bit about the Metagame heading into Stuttgart and San Antonio in a couple weeks, but before we do that, I. Let's talk about some local events. So, uh, Liam and I both played a local event this past weekend. I played a challenge, so not quite as prestigious as Liam's Cup, um, but I played, uh, I played Zekrom Box for some funsies. Um, it was a decent challenge. I don't know, maybe like 30 people. I went four in one, got fourth, uh, beat. I went three in one against loss zone decks. So taking Zurich and beating loss zone decks is something that I never was able to do before. So that's pretty cool. Um, I don't think Zuora Box is the most competitive deck, but it's fine. It's, it's good. It just, it still has its issues, right? It's kind of just losing. To itself and you also like have to work really hard to do not that broken of stuff. Uh, so I dunno. It was fun. Glad I got to play it for a challenge, but I would never, never think to bring it to a regional Uh, and I got a cup next weekend. Uh, I don't know. I'll probably play Gardevoir. And speaking of Gardevoir, Liam, talk to us about your cup.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 10:32

Yeah, I, I had a lead cup. I don't do those too often, but, you know, I gotta get my finishes up, so I, I brought Gardevoir. It's the BDIF for sure. Um, I. There was nothing too crazy. This tournament, uh, I had in Swiss it was six rounds, so there, there were 48 players at the cup, um, which is pretty big. But I started off 4.0 and then I double IDed in. I hit I Lugia two ride-on and something I forget. Um, the, the morons, I, I kind of just like blew them out. One of them drew really poorly. The other, um, And like the other, I, I was playing like a really aggressive, um, build a guarder for it. It was pretty similar to towards list. I was playing three research, three io. So, you know, shred my deck, get a lot of energy in the discard, hit the reversal, um, and you know, just big Ks like that. Um, so, so I never fell too far behind. Um.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 11:31

Um,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 11:31

Then in the Lugia game, I actually did fall really far behind. I, I had a pretty subpar setup and I started the Shinx. So I went down three to six, uh, before I hit my first attack. And then on that attack, I counter catcher KD and Archie ops, um, with Guard EX. Uh, and I, I didn't know if they played Ian or not. It turns out they did. So they hit the drop in the next turn. Um, but they had to use all their primal turbos there and. If they benched a second Lugia that game, I, I don't really know why, but yeah, so there was a Lugia on the bench and they didn't have a primal Turbo to pre powered up, so I counter catched it io and then screen tailed to Kao, the second Archie ops. Um, and then I was able to, uh, just like screen tail, um, for like my last four prizes while they drew past,'cause they were, I oh to one. Um, so that was like a pretty cool comeback. Um, but yeah, that was, that, that was my Swiss uh, and then. Top cut. I hit a Mew. Um, I lost, I lost game one. I managed to win games two and three. I I really almost messed up game three, but, uh, I, I was able to get there, I guess. Um, they, they made a mistake by evolving a second VMax, so like they weren't able to psychic leap into just two prizes on a turn that I needed to take three prizes to win. Um, so yeah, it put me in a position to win. Um. In top four, I hit zad. That matchup is like really, really good. Um, and yeah, so I put a reversal on my Gardevoir, put six energies on it, and took some one hits. Um, the Palkia version's also, like I I find a little easier to beat because you can scream tail with a luxurious cape or an ancient capsule and knockout. The bench pge it while going, like Counter Catcher io. And so you're able to take two prizes, counter catch iono, um, and like it just creates like massive winning chances. And you get that basically every game, which you don't get versus the BI version, although you do have a better counter catcher target against the, the BI version. And either way, the Match's really, really good Um, you have one hits, you have, uh, the Scream Tail Scream Tails is an amazing card. Uh, and then in finals I hit, uh, rapid Strike Fu. Um. That matchup like sucks. Uh, yeah, that matchup iss terrible. Um, I, I didn't play it very well. I walked into the, the Tmm Devo or whatever, game one mm-Hmm. Um, I, I was playing a build without Celia, and, um, my opponent knew that, so he was able to put like, you know, eight damage counters on all my things, and then Devo on the last turn so that I can power up an attacker. And I, I, I should have had his option, like pre powered up, but. Yeah, without, without Celia. Uh, if they're able to just like sit there and then all your iOS don't turn into like, um, disruption, um, it's, it's really hard to make progress, uh, make, make progress faster than they're able to like set up this like checkmate, uh, with the devo. Um, so yeah.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 14:37

Pretty good. Um did you like the more aggressive list over and you played? Did you play VIPs? I forget.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 14:46

I did, I did. It was really, it was really similar towards build. Um. Yeah, so I, I was playing VIP three research, three io. I, I thought it was real, pretty good. Um, John Ang and Alex Rubin were both at the, um, both at the Cup as well. They were playing the no VIP list. And, uh, their, their losses came from, uh, terrible openings without VIPs, uh, where they like prized some number of Kirlia. Um, and their mirage step didn't work. So their deck didn't work and then they lost, uh. VIP you, like, you could still play mirage dev in V ip. So you get the, the best of both worlds. You just lose a little bit of space. Um, I don't think you have to play kind of card.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 15:29

I think like no, VIP is probably better in best of three because it just draws worse. And so you can just scoop games quicker. Um, VIP is probably better in best of one or at least, uh, like, I don't know which one is like actually a better deck, but what I'm saying is, uh,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 15:46

Yeah. Yeah. That, that logic

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 15:47

it, yeah, it's more reasonable to play. No VIP in best of three VIP still might be better than not playing, but you know what I mean.

Track 1: 15:55

Amazingly, I think you're saying Mirage Step is even more high roley than VIPs.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 16:00

Right, right, right. To some extent, right? Like it's a

Track 1: 16:08

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're, you're like, you're like, I'm gonna claw back these four spots in my deck in, in exchange for having to make sure I do this thing every single game. And if it doesn't happen, then my deck implodes. Right.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 16:19

yeah. Yeah.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 16:21

Yeah, like the setup also feels like really, really, really risky. Like, and that it's you. You don't have like a straightforward, like you, you're not getting Pokegear out from turn one, like your turn one is like, I'm just gonna draw a pass and pray to God. This routes doesn't die. And then like, you know, so if something bad happens, like you get like gusted or, um, you know, your routes dies, you, you just like lose and, and like you're setup in that sense, like feels really awkward. Like one of the issues that you run into with Mirage that you never worry about with VIP is like, occasionally you just like, you open routes and you're like, I have one level ball, I'm just gonna sit here and like hold it. Because it has to go, it has to go to mirage depth. And like, you, you don't know if like, um. You prize mirage de or not. So like you, you end up in situations like that, that just like feel really scary, at least. Um, whereas VIP you just like, you know, uh, all gas, no breaks the whole time.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 17:18

yeah. Yeah. You go get Mew and then pray that you hit the VIP Um. Yeah. But, uh, but like I said, like besta three, like that situation where you're like, okay, I got the lone rolls, I got this level ball, and it's like, oh, if Mirage step is prize, we go to game two, baby and then you, and then you have time.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 17:38

A huge issue We.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 17:39

Right, right, right. And it's act. And I think Kiir, Kieran or Jeremy mentioned it when they were on, like, that's not a terrible thing to have in guard war because the games are long. So like, you know, losing a game in three minutes is better than losing a game in 15 minutes or 20 minutes. Yeah. So.

Track 1: 17:58

Well, and I know you made tough, tough cut decisions like the clia, the uh, um, Manaphy. So like if I told you, oh, you can get back a whole bunch of slots on your deck, you'd be like, dubs, dubs, dubs.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 18:10

Yeah.

Track 1: 18:12

So, Liam, do you wanna talk at all? I, I recognize you've come full circle in, in hopping on here and immediately saying Guard, Devore, BDIF. And that Like two weeks ago we were having the like all guard Devore podcast and you were like Iron Hands, iron hands.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 18:27

I dunno. Yeah, I, I think, I don't know. I, I think my opinion's been relatively consistent on this, which is that guard war's, the BDIF, but it's like super duper difficult to play. Um, and it's probably not the BDIF if you play it at like a low level, um. Meh on is I think, the next best deck, and it's really easy to play. Um, it's a, like, there's some complexity to it because, you know, once you play meh on, you lose all them brain cells and then your play drops and like, it suddenly becomes really hard to figure out what you're doing. But I. Yeah, I mean, Mariah's pretty easy to play generally, and it's very good. So you, you can be like confident, you'll play it, you'll like maximize your chances with the deck that at max level has good chances. Um, uh, whereas with Gardevoir, it's, it's much harder to say the same thing.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:16

Um, so Ian Rob had a tweet today that Gari GDI is a tier two deck. You can't have a horrific matchup versus the best deck in format. Mariah, on thoughts.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:28

horrific an insane word to use there. It's, it's not that bad,

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:33

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's that bad either. Like

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:37

slightly unfavor, even with like the mirage that builds or something. Like, it's fine.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:42

I'm sure with, I'm sure like with the build you played, it's even

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:46

I, I think it's favored.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:47

You think it's favorite for Guardian?

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:49

v ip six draw supporters, like, or Ian, um, you like. You, you should be good for hitting like early responses. Um,

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:59

Yeah.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 19:59

like, uh, uh, yeah, master should be good It's, it's fine. And you're also able to have like, like super productive turn ones, um, with the VIP build, uh, until like, maybe even like a turn two guard EX or something like that, which is really hard for them to respond to. It's.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 20:16

Yeah, I do think I haven't tested at all. I Wonder if a mi queue is ever worth playing in the deck just to try to buy you a turn. It's probably not worth it because they have escape ropes and like it's another card that you have to fish out in the, in the first turn or two, uh, over like a route or something else. So it's probably not worth it, but it's at least something to consider, I guess.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 20:41

Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean it definitely feels terrible getting iron hands on, uh, turn, turn one, turn two. Um, but maybe he was like pretty bad too.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 20:51

Yeah. Uh,

Track 1: 20:53

So I, I, I think for, for, for listeners, I mean, I recognize, uh, I think when you've played guard of war at regional's past, Liam, you were like. It's really, really hard to play it well for like all day. And, and here I, I think you said once again, it's just like really, really hard to play. Are, does that color your thinking, do you think? Oh, I would, I I wouldn't play it to San Antonio because Too hard to play. Or are there things that like, and Mike, I'm interested in your take on this, like you can do to help ensure you consistently play your best or something throughout the day, like As, as a parent, I'm, I'm cognizant of like, it's a grind man. That's why I don't play. Everybody knows I don't play'cause like Jesus Christ, I don't have enough brain cells to last that long.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 21:43

I think on like further reflection, it's not even like the deck's, like too hard to play. It's kind of just like. There's like, there's just like so much stuff going on and then like, it's, it's really easy to like, like feel overwhelmed more than like actually be overwhelmed, I think. Um, like it's, yeah, there's a, there's a, there's a lot of stuff you have to keep track of and then like once you lose like your hand on like one thing, it can feel like the whole game is like falling apart, I guess. Um. I like, yeah, I, I think I could play it, but it's definitely scary and I know I, I've sent Gardevoir a few times in the past and every single time I, I obviously think I can play it at a level that will be able to produce like some sort of result that I'm looking for, but, uh, it hasn't worked out. Um, so it's, it's something I'm definitely factoring in. But same time, I do think the deck's really good. I'd, I'd love to be able to play it at a high level. Um, I, I think that would be my best chance at getting like a good result. So. I don't know. It's a, it's a hard decision.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 22:48

Yeah. Like, and it's like weird for Mewtwo because like I, I feel like I've played it fine at all the events that I've been to, but I haven't made day two. Right. Like, I've been wondering away from making day two, uh,

Track 1: 23:00

That's, I know we talked about this before and you were, you were always like, I've played it a lot. I feel totally fine, but, but yeah, like, like we haven't gotten the results yet. Uh, even though I look at you guys and I'm like, they're good enough to get the results.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 23:12

right. And so like, is it Is it, uh, my play that is like, it's hard for me to identify what things that I'm not doing correctly? Or is it just, you know, the variance and, and matchups, like, it's really hard to identify, uh, for, for myself. So, I dunno. Um, I mean, I think playing it at a cup like Liam did is, is, you know, it's not perfect practice, but I think like that's it's practice. It's good practice playing it in person.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 23:39

I, I, I think it's fine. Probably. I think it's, I mean, my, my best of one results with Guard are like so much better. It's also in like, you know, a way lower stake situation with way fewer rounds. Like it, it's much easier to, to. Have better play, I think at like Elite Cup or Elite Challenge as compared to like, you know, nine round regional, um, where you like the clock is also something I think that I've had like major issues with and it's not even like I tie a lot, but it's more, more that I have to rush, um, in order to finish games like after you, after you lose Game one, um, to, to whatever reason, like you, you have to play lightning fast to try to avoid a tie. Um, and like you never have that kind of pressure on you at a local event.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 24:22

Yeah, it is like a different, um, capacity for skill I guess. Like you could be the best Pokegear player in the world, but you could not be the best Pokegear player in the world in time situations. Uh, right. Yeah. Hmm. I dunno. That's, it's definitely the big risk of a deck like carnivore.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 24:44

Yeah,

Track 1: 24:46

And after that, where, where does that take us?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 24:49

you gotta say that again. Yeah, that, that, that, uh, made more sense.

Track 1: 24:58

Yeah. Uh uh, so, so what's, what's the play for Stuttgart? Is it just Guard of War and the sheer number of people that play it? Somebody who would play Guard of War will win the tournament.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 25:09

I don't know. So, uh, Benji fam posted a handful of questions about Stu Kart Day two predictions. So maybe we could talk about Tho we can answer those questions here. I, I can, I can say'em out as well. Um, and then depending on our answers, we can come to, uh, the play. So the first question is moron is, which, which will be played more in day two. Moron, PONI or no Poni.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 25:38

No p and e. Um, I assume this is like, yeah, this is like the Turbo list. Um.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 25:46

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 25:47

really, really Turbo list. I, I don't know if I said this last week, but I've been saying it for the past few days for sure. I have zero clue how you arrive at the Turbo list. Um, I think in Neil's list, like was playing like three Arvin. Um, and to me that is like the strangest thing where like it's got like five draw supporters or something and like, I don't, I don't know what calculation you do to find that. Like 18th Energy is better than six draw supporter like. I, it's insane. Uh, I, I mean, I haven't put in any games on that deck, but I, I, the counts don't make any sense to Mees,

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 26:27

it's. It's funny you say that'cause uh, NATO came and played a cup, uh, a week or two ago, and the only change he made to that list was dropping the 18th energy for like, uh, another research or something like that. like, he's like, I, I gotta do that at least. Um, yeah, I agree. I've played against the PE version probably as just as much as I have the, like, the regular version on live. Um, but that version seems, yeah, I, I don't think it's, it's good. Like it feels bad when it goes off, but like there's also plenty of games where they just don't really get to play the game or they get their, their term one attacker and then you kill it and then they have nothing else, uh, for the rest of the game. Um, I think personally, I think if I was gonna play my ride on, I would play, you know, something like, uh, the list that won LAIC, but probably with beach courts over path. Um. And like, I think, I think that's what, uh, Gabriel's list was, right? It was kind of the same thing, but it had beach courts.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 27:31

I, I have no clue.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 27:33

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 27:34

I, I love the path though. I, I think the path's amazing. It's like I. It's significantly better in Mew. It's really good against zd. It's really good against, uh, Gardy. It's really good against Mew. Those are like all your, all your bad matches. It gives you good shots against. Um, the, the other thing on like the really high energy count,'cause that's obviously like the defining factor of the Turbo build, um, is like I've put in a good number of games with the, yeah, like the LAIC list. I'm playing like 13 energy and like. I, I, I, I have not had a moment where I wish I had more energy. Like I think I, I hit generators, like of beyond acceptable, um, like amount of the time. Um, and yeah, like I, I hit turn one, turn two hands, like pretty consistently. Um, I, I can't imagine cutting all my draw supporters for for more energy, um, for like whatever bump that would give me. I don't, I don't see a world where that's like good enough for me.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 28:29

Yeah, I agree. All right. Number two is Mew, DTE versus Fusion.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 28:37

I hate fusion, bro. I think, I think I actually, actually, I think it's fusion. I think fusion's better, but I hate fusion.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 28:44

I, I agree. I think, well, so I think Fusion will be more played and more represented by, but I also agree that if I was playing Mew, I would for sure play DTE Mew.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 28:54

I agree.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 28:55

Yeah. Like I'm not that scared to Spirit tomb and like you just take the Ls, like

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:01

And D team. A better deck, bro. You gotta play a bunch of back cards.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:05

It's just way better. I really like the lists. Um, that did well. I think in Poland there was 2D TEM. I think one of them played grabber, one of them didn't. Uh, and I like both of the lists.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:18

Are they crushing Hammer or no?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:20

No, no. Crushing Hammer dude. Crushing Hammer seems so troll to me. like, what is Crushing Hammer doing?

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:26

I mean, um, the, the Mew that I hit in top eight at the League Cup this weekend was the Cushing hammer build. And the maybe, maybe a guardian matchup isn't, isn't the one it's good against, but I mean, I I don't know, imagine what it's good against. I, I think the best argument is that it's pretty burnable and you can discard it off cram.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:46

Yeah,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:48

So

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:49

I feel like, like

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:50

that's all I saw it used for.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 29:52

Yeah, like the, presumably it's okay against Charr, right? If they get the one charr out, then you can like hammer away some fire energy. But like, just grab'em, dude. Like if you're gonna play crushing hammer, just play grabber. Like cheese them one way or the other. Grabber just seems way better. Grabber's decent against Gardevoir as well, so yeah, I dunno. Grabber seems way better than me. Um, okay, three Charr. P versus, well, it it, the way Benji frames it is Evolution Tmm versus No Evolution tm. I haven't seen Evolution TM in the Piot build, so I'm assuming that's Piot versus bi.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 30:30

Yeah, I, you, you can't play PT and tmm, like,

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 30:33

Yeah.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 30:34

it just doesn't work. Um, I, the PTT builds good. I think like. Yeah, the PTT builds much better.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 30:43

I agree. I think a more interesting question might be, there was some list that did, well, obviously like the standard list is with four Arvin, but there was a couple lists that did well that didn't run Arvin like the, the Japanese dude that got second in Brisbane did not run Arvin, and I think one of the top eight in Poland also did not run Arvin. I could be making that up, but Let's see.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 31:13

Yeah, I don't know. I've never been a fan of Arvin, but I, uh, I don't know if like running Pidgey with that. It makes sense. Uh, I, I don't know. I haven't put any games in what the deck, so I, I can't give a good.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 31:27

Oh, so it's actually just both of the chars arts that did well in Brisbane, did not play. Arvin got second and third and neither played. Neither played Arvin. So. Oh, one of them was though, so Yeah, Arvin iss. Okay. But you can kinda like, you can kind of just get there, right. Even without Arvin often,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 31:50

Yeah.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 31:53

and like iono iss just way, way, way better as the game goes on.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 31:59

Do I, I find that, I find it when it was like, fine, the game goes on, but it's like. It's pretty sucks dude.'cause you don't draw any cards, man. And you get like one car to turn.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:08

Mm-Hmm.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:10

That's always my experience.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:14

Yeah. I do

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:14

I don't.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:15

better though. I think charts are, is good. I think like personally, I think like the tier one decks personally are guardian, moron and charr. Like that's what I think.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:27

What, what is Charles already good against? Bro. It's like good against Mew. It's like slightly favored verse. More on what? What else are you good against?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:37

Uh, well, I mean, what else is there? You're good against anti Valiant for sure. You just set up a set up Aard, you're chilling. Uh, you're obviously very bad against Noex. Um, I think you're probably pretty good against Rapid Strike. You're

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:56

find rap like pretty hard if they, the, the devo or

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 32:59

Oh, the devo. Yeah, I guess that's true. speaking about Zd to Snorlax matchup, would you ever tech for Snorlax with Zd

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 33:09

ZI mean, like I get that I'm not answering the question, but I wouldn't play Z Man But I mean, no, I, I wouldn't play mini or, or Turo. Uh, I like. It, it takes way too many cars to, to try to beard, like the, the matchup is like so terrible. I think you could probably play two, maybe three turro and you, you'd still be on favor. It's terrible matchup.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 33:31

I agree. Like that's, that's kind of like the, you can tech for stall if your matchup is not unwinnable already, but if you're already unwinnable Yeah. Don't bother putting in cards. Uh, like, like Gardy. You can tech a little bit more if you want. You can run the Turo pal Padd. Um, but it's like winnable even without those cards. Right. You just don't let them lock a blue dude and you, and you could win. Um, but yeah, chars are unwinnable. Not worth, not worth checking. Um, okay, that ard uh, now the rest are pitting two decks against each other. What will be more played in day two? Gardevoir or Snorlax? X

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:13

Yeah, that's not a real question bro.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:16

Yeah. Carnivore. Moving on, uh, Giratina or Roaring Moon? I feel like also not a real question.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:23

Oh my. No, that's a hard one. I think, uh, like Yeah, I, I think that's a hard one. Like, I'd be, I like, I'd be inclined to say Roaring Moon'cause I just, I just can't say Giratina. I, I can't say Giratina.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:38

Oh, interesting. To, uh, let's

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:41

It doesn't deserve, it doesn't.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:44

let's see. There was

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:45

a bad deck, dude. Oh my God.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:48

uh. Oh wow. There really wasn't that much Giratina at all in, uh, in Poland. Two three

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 34:56

Yeah, dude, I saw like three tweets today about like, oh my God. Like I keep thinking Tina's the BDIF, and then it's like the worst I can format after I play it, and I'm like. We've noticed like the worst I can format for like months now, it's, it's, it's literally terrible. They're like, oh, but like, it like makes so much sense in theory because like, you know, I don't, I don't know how I actually reached this position, but what if I have like two s and two Tinas fully powered up and then I go pass Roxanne counter catcher. Like, whoa. But like, there's no way to reach that bro. It's like, I think it's terrible, bro.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 35:31

When I, when I played, uh, in my challenge over the weekend, Two of the games were against Giratina, and I felt like if I was playing any other deck except Zoro Box, I would've just smashed them because like Zoro, I kind of just have to sit there and wait for them to do something proactive. And they weren't doing anything for

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 35:49

Yeah, it.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 35:50

turns So yeah, I guess that's fair. Uh, in Poland, their day two numbers were pretty comparable. Roaring Moon and Giratina. Uh, so Yeah, I'm gonna go with Giratina. I think it'll be more represented than Mory Moon, but I,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 36:07

just people actually play Giratina'cause they think it's good, but so bad, bro.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 36:13

um, number six, Sy Intel versus Ante Valiant.

Track 1: 36:22

I wanted to hear Liam talk about, uh, how he thought s she was a super great tech to play at a major tournament, uh, coming out this cup.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 36:29

Yeah. No, I, I think that deck is good. Um, I don't, I like, I can't imagine actually playing it'cause it doesn't have a real drawing engine. Artillery is terrible. Like it, it's terrible. But I. Um, I mean, like it, it has like a solid matchup spread. If you know in that like lost Giratina of fashion, you just assume that with like the worst engine in format, you hit everything you need every turn. It's got like a pretty solid matchup spread But you know, you go on artillery for like Corina for three and that's your turn, bro.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 37:08

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. In theory, it seems really strong. I do think it'll do better than anti valiant. I've played a bit of anti valiant the last couple of days, and like I told, I told these guys, like I had a game where I played against guard Devore, where I Literally took three prizes before they got their second turn. And I still almost lost. Like I just, I couldn't even believe that. I still almost lost that game. Uh, and I kind of took that as a evidence that maybe this deck isn't that great, if you can go up three six before they play their second turn and still can lose, not

Track 1: 37:47

I, I'm trying to think. I know there've been some other decks like this, but like, it feels like the decks where the first couple of prizes are easy and the, it's like, like you'd like it to be the. Other way,

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 37:58

Yeah. Yeah. Which

Track 1: 38:00

there, there's definitely a history of people playing decks like that, right?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 38:03

Yeah. And Charar is kind of the other way, right? Like the last couple prizes for jars art are significantly easier, uh, than the first couple.

Track 1: 38:12

I mean, that, that's what, that's what all the

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 38:13

I still feel like.

Track 1: 38:14

right? They're like, just gonna body up those last couple prizes be so easy. All you gotta do is figure out how to not how to survive the first three or four turns.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 38:23

Yeah. What were you saying? Them.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 38:27

I do. I, I think chars are like, the first prizes feel hard because you don't want hit anything. The last prizes feel hard because, you know, at that point, like the game is going so fast, you know what I'm saying? Like everybody's fully set up. Um, you're just like swinging Blowns, but like, you know, charge art is no disruption. It has no way to like do anything, bro. It's just, it's just hitting and like the last couple prizes are easy, but like, you know, every, everybody knows those turns have been coming for like, you know, five turns and they've been preparing the whole time and you're like, you know, get to the end of the game and you're like, all I can do is swing, pray I win. It's terrible.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 39:02

All right. The last one on Benji's List is a funny one. Chi Pow versus Cloth Apparently Chi Pow and Cloth are the same tier.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 39:14

I'm taking cough.

Track 1: 39:16

Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's the craziest thing is I knew Liam was gonna say the answer is

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 39:22

Yeah. Yep.

Track 1: 39:24

how the mighty have fallen. Geez. I mean, we, this used to be like a 10 podcast.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 39:29

Yeah.

Track 1: 39:30

Caden has finals and all of a sudden we end up just like putting'em at the bottom of the uh, barrel. It's rough.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 39:36

I think we gotta go find that Jake Tweet where he was gassing up chimp out hands. So.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 39:41

and looking at the comments on Benji's thing, everybody else has chosen cloth over chi as well. uh, that is too funny. Um, so yeah, I'm excited to see what uh happens there. I don't know how much that will affect the San Antonio Metagame. I'm sure it will a little bit. Um, but you know, with only a week, uh, it, you know, there's kind of been a few weeks between LAIC and, and the Poland, Australia. And so people have been reine based on that. And now with only a week between Stu Gart and San Antonio, I feel like there's not quite enough time to like fully switch. Like I know a bunch of the local Philly players, they pretty much know what they're playing and they're not gonna switch. Uh, so.

Track 1: 40:35

I just, I don't get the impression. Like, so many people went to the Poland tournament, but I don't feel like I've seen the same amount of like Ook or Fook or Fook or tweets, uh uh, coming. Like, are those gonna happen in the next two or three days, or is do you think everybody's going? Or like, are the good players gonna be there? So people look and they say, oh yeah, that is the best deck.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 40:55

Yeah, it's a good question. Uh, it's possible that Stu Art had a much smaller cap. I'm not sure. Like Poland was pretty big. Poland was like a thousand players,

Track 1: 41:04

Yeah. And that's, if it turns out that this is like a 700 person tournament people, I think people are gonna look and say, eh, you, if you can only win a 700 person tournament.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 41:17

Yeah. I, I don't know. I think every, every major event, all the, all the grinders are gonna be there, bro. They're, they're always, they're always going. Everything,

Track 1: 41:29

Yeah. Well that's why I'm surprised. I feel like I haven't, I haven't heard grinders. Getting ready to go,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 41:35

yeah.

Track 1: 41:35

maybe, maybe it's just too early in the week, but it's not. It's not too early in the week. Right.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 41:41

Doesn't matter. They're going be there.

Track 1: 41:50

Anything else guys?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 41:51

Um,

Track 1: 41:51

an easy week.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 41:53

yeah. I mentioned right before the pod, I've been posting some old promo cards that I have, uh, for sale over on Facebook, Burbank Pokegear, if anybody is interested in checking them out. I've been posting like a couple every week. Um, so if you're interested in like old

Track 1: 42:13

So, so is there a revenue optimization strategy there, Mike?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 42:17

Uh, not really. I just.

Track 1: 42:20

Like, is there a reason you're going there instead of eBay or TCG player or something like that?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 42:24

Oh, um, well, it's just easier. It's less, uh, less time like posting the listings and'cause like on eBay, you have to post everything individually. This, I can just take a picture of like five or six cards at a time and be like, Hey, I want to sell these for this price, but I'm flexible. And, uh. It's been, it's been fairly easy so far. I do think, like eventually for the things I don't sell, I will put them on eBay. Uh, but I wanted to do this first. I also like think I, I probably reach more people that I think, uh, will appreciate the cards, if that makes sense.

Track 1: 43:07

That's fair. Like eBay, they actually have to go look for the cards here. You're like, you're like bringing the cards to them.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 43:13

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I know for a fact I've already sold a couple to, like, people that I like are not looking to just buy and resell the cards. They're, they want them for their collection and it's like, I know. I know. They're going to good hands. Which is a nice feeling too.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 43:30

Uh, I also wanna touch on one other thing about the meta really quick, um, which is that going into tournaments, I, I think it's been this way for the last few months and for some reason people wanna do it every single tournament, and I get it, it's because guard divorce hard to beat, but. You should not go into this tournament losing de Gardevoir. Don't play Charizard. Don't play lost Giratina. Don't play Mew. Don't play Roaring Moon, don't play Lost Box. All of those decks are bad. Like you, you just should not go in losing de Gardevoir or don't play Snorlax also like you. Don't tell yourself it's okay to lose, to guard Devore if your other matchups are good, that that's wrong. Guard. Guard DeVore's, the BAF. You shouldn't lose to it like you play guard devore. Find something that's not like terribly unfavor into it. Don't just go on losing to it. That's terrible idea.

Track 1: 44:17

I, I'm, I'm trying to figure out what kind of meta manipulation that is. I'm like, what deck? If they don't play those seven decks,

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 44:23

because. want, like everybody keeps wanting to play Los Giratina and Char Art and Mew and like all of these decks that just like loose to Gardevoir, but they're like, ah, maybe I can like squeak out my matchup spread against like everything else, but like, just don't lose to guard Devore, dude. Like it's, it's the BEIF. Everybody knows Guard. DeVore's gonna be good. Everybody knows Gardevoir is gonna do well. Everybody knows Gardevoir is gonna be there. You wanna lose to it anyway. Like, what is that?

Track 1: 44:49

Well, I mean, you already said Mariah on is as it turns out, 50 50. So like you can't play Mariah on either. What, what can you play? Is there any deck left?

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 44:56

You could play the mirror, you could play, you play ride on, take the 50 50, but like, you shouldn't have your opponent flip over a routes and be like, oh man, I can't believe it, bro. I didn't think I was gonna hit this today. I'm so unlucky, bro. My tournament's over, ugh. It's a route Cooked. Cooked

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 45:13

Well, I, uh, to, I definitely agree and disagree to some extent. Like, I think it's fine to take like a 40, 60 to guard or I just wouldn't go into the event like playing, I don't know what deck has a much worse matchup than 40, 60.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 45:29

Yeah, like s is.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 45:32

Okay, sure. Snorlax Yeah. That's not something I would play, but like, but like Mew, like Mew isn't that bad in a gardy. Like it's not that bad.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 45:43

It's pretty terrible, bro. It, no, yeah. No, it's terrible. It's terrible. I, I think that's like 80 20 for Gardevoir. Like No, it, it's, it's terrible. It's, it's terrible. They have like 17 and a half years and with Counter Catcher now they, the guard EX like, always takes two prizes on the Genex. Like, like got screen tail too, like Yeah. Ups. Terrible. Like, what? What's good about that matchup?

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:07

Well, I do think it's much like the Fusion is much better in into Guardi.'cause they have Las City, they have Ice

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:13

The fusion's better.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Dtt MU Yeah. Is pretty bad integrated. Yeah. I, I, I agree with that. Um. But like fusion can go like, yeah, yeah. But fusion's a bad deck.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:26

Yeah. Like, oh my God, bro. Fusion's like, you lose all the past, bro. Like they just do whatever they want to, and when they do whatever they want to, you lose.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:34

Yeah. But you can, like if you lost cities, couple, couple boys and they don't get a mirage step off like, and you could win

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:40

Yep.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:42

Yep.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:43

Matchup for Guardian should be beyond. I hope they.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 46:48

Sure. I mean, I agree, like, uh, to some extent I agree. Like it'd be really, it'd be really hard to convince me to not bring Gardevoir to an event, like a major event because it's, it's just, it's just very well-rounded, very powerful. All right, you heard it here. First guard DeVores winning Stu Kart and San Antonio.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 47:16

Uh, I dunno when, but you know. That's, it's

Track 1: 47:20

I mean, apparently it could lose to a, uh, Urshifu in the final round. I just out of nowhere.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 47:26

true.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 47:26

yeah, like there's like random decks that could just like match a brute all their, their way through the entire event. Of course. But, you know, Gar Gardevoir

Track 1: 47:35

such a minor tournament. Be easy to high roll.

liam_1_12-05-2023_172304: 47:38

I, I think everybody knows Gardevoir ISS the best I can format. Like, it just, it just has like the most options, the versatility, the most raw power, like. It's, it is just like the most cohesive deck and format and everything else is just like you're playing and you're like, ick bro. I'm playing 15 energy and like, you know, my deck just like does not draw cards. And I pray to God to set up an attack or each turn and then like, you know, I'm getting counter catcher eye on no screen tail. My whole board murdered and like somehow have to be okay. Not okay. Just play Guardi Gore. That's fine.

m_1_12-05-2023_172304: 48:09

All right. I think that's it.

Track 1: 48:12

All the John Pauls are our outro guys. Another podcast in the books in uh, a real internet connection.

48:19

We're the science of the present, Look ahead, we gotta give meaning to life, When you talk to me, I listen, Stare straight ahead, trying to pretend, I got something to say, but I'm telling you, Otherwise my mind is just a little mellow. I'm a beast and I awaken you, don't make fun of me, tipsy till three, Now I'm drunk, naked, and hanging from a tree, Found it on a chest, a carpet on the leaves, but, Where you wear your hats, I'm charming, You can make a name, start bombing, Put the crocs in the ground, I'm gonna raise them up, Build a roof up above, I'm gonna raise it up, Yeah, I'm drunk I've got two arms, wanna pick em up. I've got two legs, I'll teach em how to jump. I've got two legs, I'll teach em how to jump it. I'm in the zone for sleepless nights. I'm in the zone for sleepless nights. It is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah, that's what it's called. We just call it