brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 0:00

While we're waiting for Kayden, I can tell you one or two stories from Peoria that Kayden already knows, and I gotta tell you about Mike.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 0:05

Sounds good.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 0:06

So, so, the first story is, uh, uh, Kayden's dad Nabil was playing in the

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 0:12

Oh, nice.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 0:13

week, and after the lunch break, his opponent no shows. So, you know, after ten minutes, he's got the dub, and he comes back over to me, and he sits down, and he's... He starts laying out this whole strategy, cause he's, I think he's a little, uh, like, tilted by lunch break or something like that, about like, how to accelerate tournaments. Like, he's like, I read all the Twitter threads from last week, and like, best of one, and like, you know, how many best of one rounds could we get off realistically, like, we could get off a lot. We do best of one, but it's not three turns, like in 30 minutes you know the round is done. Like, he lays out this whole complicated strategy for like, how he's going to speed up tournaments, how he's going to speed up tournaments, for like 40 minutes, he's just going and going and going. And then they, and then they come on the loudspeaker, and they're like, Nabil Hyatt, blah blah blah blah blah, we're looking for your match slip. Hahahaha. Ohhhhh, the irony. So thick, you could just cut it with a knife.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 1:17

still end up getting the dub? Okay,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 1:21

yeah, he did. I mean, the other guy, the other guy never showed up, so the judge had already marked his slip as winning, he just

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 1:27

drop it off...

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 1:28

sat on it for like 40 minutes. Never dropped

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 1:31

had it while he was talking with you. Ugh....

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 1:33

Yo, yeah, yeah, I was in his back pocket, just absolutely sitting there chilling. Never turned it in. Absolute stud move. Incredible stuff. Second story I have for you that, uh, um, was funny. So Liam Hyatt, Caden's younger brother, is in his last year as a senior. And he is in like, round 4 or 5, and, uh, shuffling his deck, and every time he shuffles his deck and hands it to the other guy, the other guy shuffles the deck, and Liam feels like the guy is like, kinda eyeballing his deck a little bit. So he always cuts it, right? And, after like the second time he cuts it, the guy's like, Is that legal for you to cut your own deck? And Liam's like, yeah, yeah, it's totally legal, trust me. And, something else happens, where the guy should have gotten a double prize loss, and instead the guy gets off with a warning, uh, because Liam didn't want to escalate because he felt bad, because Liam's still 2 0'd the guy, right? But, uh, uh, they call a judge, judge gives this guy a warning, afterwards... Guys totally tilted at this point, right? He goes, you know, is this guy allowed to cut his own deck? And the judge says, no. And Liam's like, wait, wait, wait, maybe you don't understand the problem. Like, here's what happens, you know, I shuffle, and then he shuffles, and then I cut it. And the judge is like, no, you can't do that. And he's like, wait, maybe you don't understand what I said. I shuffle, then he shuffles, and then I cut it. And the judge is like, no, you can't do that. And, and then the judge walks off, and the other guy is like, I knew you were a cheater, I got you, I got you, I got you. I knew it all along, yo, you told, you told me to trust you, you told me to believe you, you lied, oh my god. And then the judge comes back over, like 30 seconds later, he's like, Guys, I gotta apologize, I was totally, totally wrong, and he is totally, totally right.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 3:28

Oh man.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 3:30

Ha ha

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 3:30

Thank

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 3:31

So,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 3:32

So that is hilarious.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 3:34

so he avoided being a cheater in this other kid's eyes, in the end.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 3:40

Exactly, exactly. Caden, welcome to the pod, I was just telling the story of Liam cutting his own deck.

kaden-hyatt_1_10-10-2023_172009: 3:47

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. See, I had a moment. I, I had a moment in, I was, and I'm never gonna forget this. 2014, um, 2014. After NAIC, you know, they had those like side events that gave regional level points in 2014 because there were enough people who got their invite. Um, and in one of those I got a four prize penalty for shuffling my own deck randomly, which I just like, you know, as a fidget. I, for some unknown reason, just picked up my deck and shuffled it.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 4:20

Awesome junior being his best junior self. Caden, I can tell you are in your school library in like a concrete block room because the echo is crazy.

kaden-hyatt_1_10-10-2023_172009: 4:30

Okay, let me,

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 4:31

It's like,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 4:32

you have a headset? You wanna try?

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 4:34

it's not that crazy.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 4:41

Welcome to the Trash Relinched Podcast. It's the only podcast about the Pokémon Trading Card Game. There are no others. Attendance is 133%. Me, Liam Halliburton, Mike Fouchet, Caden Hyatt. Pretty much the gang's all here. We're only missing Brit. Uh... We're on Twitter, you can find pretty much all of us, you can find all of us on Twitter, it's amazing. Uh, no new 5 star review updates, but if you leave a review or tweet about us, we will read it on the pod. It is a great way for us to talk about you and whatever questions you might have. Dragonshield is our sponsor, new sleeves did not show up in time for Peoria, which left my youngest son in a bit of a, uh, dire straits, but we are, uh, thinking some sleeves will show up shortly because everybody always needs new sleeves. Um... Alright, guys, I had one other crazy story I wanted to talk about from Peoria, and I think that might be a sweet segue into talking about, um, some of the rulings that were made on stream. I heard a ruling, Mike, that I'm interested in your take on. I talked about it a little with Liam and Caden. So, this guy's got, uh, Skyseal Stone on his active, and he says, KO for three prizes. But he never activated the ability on Sky Seal Stone? The other guy says, the other guy immediately stops him from taking prizes, calls a judge, and then the judge rules, keep you straight on this, the judge ruled that when he said KO he was not in the attack phase? Or in the attack phase?

Track 1: 6:15

No, he, he entered, so basically the ruling was, what the, what his,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 6:21

Oh, the ruling was he had entered the attack phase, so he couldn't take three prizes, and your position was, saying KO is not announcing an attack, so it's... He shouldn't have been in the attack phase and he should have been able to do the thing.

Track 1: 6:34

Yeah, my feeling is, if we're kind of sharking someone, on the fact that they didn't activate Sky Seal Stone before, like, formally before declaring the attack, like, I think it is fair to also then say, um, I did not formally announce my attack. I have not yet entered the attack step. I just said KO. And, you know, I said KO for three. Like, so, so my feeling on it is, you know, I say KO for three, if you're gonna try to shark me and say I haven't activated Sky Seal Stone, like, I don't think I've entered the attack step. And so I disagreed, I disagreed, and I just very well, this is just a personal thing, it's probably not right by the rulebook, but I, I, I don't know. The judge ruled that saying KO wasn't entering the attack step. Which, I don't, I don't know how I feel about

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 7:22

So the ruling was that the person could only take two prize cards?

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 7:25

Silence.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 7:27

Yeah,

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 7:27

I have a lot of thoughts. Yeah,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 7:31

this is, that was a crazy one, right? I was like, oh this is a little bit of a spicy take here because

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 7:35

So I have a lot of thoughts from different points of view and perspectives as well. So, I think morally... Totally agree with you, Caden. Like, if my opponent did that, I would never call them on that. Like, that seems crazy to me, to call someone on that. But on the other hand, I think being consistent with, like, other... Verbiages of quote unquote entering this attack phase. I think it is probably technically correct what the judge ruled But then okay, but then there's a third thing and I talked with Drew Bennett Kennett about this actually At one of the tournaments last year, and Pokemon does not have phases, like we do not have an attack phase in our game. That is like, kind of a made up construct that has been created to be applied to tournaments and, you know, uh, do these rules. Like, there is no attack phase. It's not like Magic and Yu Gi Oh! where we have different phases in the game. So... Like, I think there I think it's this really weird gray area that, uh, is very sub it's subjective to some degree, at least, um, and therefore, that, like, also leads me to to to be on your side, Caden, that, like, there is no attack phase, like, he didn't say an especially since he didn't say an attack, like, Just let him do the right thing. So I do think the judge ruling was consistent though with other rulings I just don't agree with it Both technically from really from like a technical rule standpoint of the actual Pokemon card game, but also morally

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 9:29

so, so,

Track 1: 9:30

mean, I, I think that,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 9:33

go Caden,

Track 1: 9:34

I think that the attack step is something that's sort of really, I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that, I think it's something that while it might not be in the, like, official rulebook, has sort of very much become baked in on how rulings are made, like, when you mentioned that, the thing I immediately thought of was Radiant Venusaur, um, which, you know, has had a whole suite of, um, of sort of rule, like, specific rulings around it, because it's, It's one of the few things that happens, like, at the end of your turn after the attack, um, and I, I feel like I remember in a lot of those sort of, you know, in the Pokemon forums where they describe, like, specific interactions, a lot of them reference the attack step in their description of how Venusaur interacts with cards, so I feel like, well, you know, this might be a case of, you know, the official Pokemon rulebook just has not been updated. Um, to, to, to show the attack step, which is a flaw, which is a flaw, because I think they, it's clear that they want there to be sort of an attack step, um, and I, I, I, I mean, if it's not in the rulebook, I think it's, the rulebook should be updated to

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 10:46

I I do understand why You know, saying something like KO probably should, in a lot of situations, be considered entering, you know, this, this step or phase, because, um, if it's not, you could do something shadier where you're like, okay, I'm just gonna say KO. And then, maybe it's not actually a KO, uh, but maybe my opponent won't realize it, and then if they do realize it, I'll just be like, Oh, oh, oh, uh, you know, I, I'm gonna use this other attack instead, or I'm gonna do something else. So, I do understand, like, why there is this ambiguity allowed to, to... Force players into this attack step, if that makes sense.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 11:39

you for watching. Thank

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 11:40

would you feel differently if there was a Pokemon that existed whose KO was, or attack was KO?

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 11:46

I don't think so.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 11:48

Then if you just say KO at any point during your turn they're like, you're in the attack phase, hold!

Track 1: 11:53

yeah, I don't know, I just, one of the weirder rulings for me has always been the, um, you know, I declared an attack, That I can't legally use, because I either don't have the energy, or if it's like, you know, lost mine or whatever, I don't have the, I don't have the, um, cards in the Lost Zone to do it. One of the weirdest rulings for me has always been, in the case where you declare an attack that's illegal, you obviously are not able to use the attack. However, you are allowed to choose a new attack. That has always, that has always felt weird. Like, I feel like, I, like, I mean, this is, this is just goes back to what you were saying, Mike, about, like, the attack step, and whether or not that's, like, a, actually a thing. But, I don't know, that has always been a weird ruling for me.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 12:45

Yeah, I mean, I agree. Well, what do you think should happen? Do you think the hmm.

Track 1: 12:55

I think they should be allowed to continue doing actions, because they haven't, they haven't attacked, they can't, they couldn't have attacked. Like, they, they, they declared an attack, they can't use the attack, like, this, this notion of now you've entered the attack step is one that's been, like, you know, it's arbitrary. Um, it doesn't have to exist, and I don't know if I necessarily agree with it.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 13:20

So you'd let them attach the, attach the extra energy and go to town if that's like the thing they're missing.

Track 1: 13:26

Yeah.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 13:26

Uh, if they realized, oh man, what, uh, um, what if they have the energy to attack and they could attack, but they thought it took a knockout and then they realized it didn't take a knockout.

Track 1: 13:39

Oh, that's different.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 13:40

Ha

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 13:41

that, that was an example I thought I'd bring, I was going to bring up, which is like, if you, if you say the effect of an attack changes by the ability after you say KO, right, you say KO for three prizes. Which, like, implies the use of an ability. Like, if you promote Reversal Arcana Guardi, and you have Guardi EX on the bench, and you're like, Brainwave for Knockout, and then you're like, Oh, wait, it's not Knockout? Like, but I said Knockout, so I get to, like, attach forward energy with Embrace. Just, like, by implication. That seems like an

Track 1: 14:10

that's different, because there you formally declared an attack.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 14:15

Alright, well, what if you, what if you just say KO? Then you get to

Track 1: 14:20

My, yeah, I would say you have not, yeah, you haven't

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 14:23

No, but, I, I think, I think saying KO and the attack name should be treated the exact same way, because, like, Uh, yeah, I think it opens up, like, a whole host of precedent problems. If you're, like, as long as you mispronounce the attack that you do, you can just, like, undo it anytime you want. That seems so insane to me. Like,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 14:41

You say KO, and they say it's not a KO, and then you say, oh, in that case, Boss KO.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 14:46

hm

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 14:47

Yeah. Like, I, like, as long as you mispronounce what you're doing, you get to just, like, take it back at any moment, just, like, seems like a terrible precedent.

Track 1: 15:00

well, I mean, I

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 15:01

Ha ha ha! I recognize that part of the problem there is like, language barriers. Historically, like, that's not even a thing, right?

Track 1: 15:07

yeah, I mean, well, Liam, I feel like the, um, you know, this is a sort of shortcut that, like, we, as Pokemon players, we take a lot of shortcuts in our gameplay. That are not, like, by the book, because, like, formally, um, you should be declaring the name of the attack every time you use an attack. Like, that is what you should be doing. You should not be saying K. O., you should not be mispronouncing the name of it, you should be declaring the exact name that you're of the attack you're using every time. And, so, uh, my feeling on it is when once as soon as you get into the, sort of, shortcut y realm, of, um, I'm saying stuff like KO, not formally, like, I'm attacking with T tar, I'm saying KO, not formally saying which attack I'm using, um, or, or whatnot, like, I think all, now you're outside of the world of, like, um, you know, I guess you could call it, like, uh, judge protected, like, judge protected sequencing, um, and I think, as you're, you know, if you are, If you're the opponent, you absolutely, like, can, and maybe should, especially if this is a precedent, like, ask your opponent to formally declare the names of the attacks they're using, and, and play in a more formal manner.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 16:27

That's absurd. That's absurd. We have tons of different shortcuts that make the game easier to play because it allows you to communicate things faster, and it makes the game, like, way more enjoyable, and I don't think, like, all those shortcuts should just be, like, taken as, like, completely outside the realm of, like, judge protected actions, like, you can't just, like, yeah, man, like, you can't just start doing, like, all this crazy stuff, like, just taking back whatever you want because you're, like, using shortcuts, like, every, like, If you're implying that you have, like, intention to do something, you do something on the board, and then you're like, oh, but I used a shortcut, so I can just take it back, that's, that's absurd.

Track 1: 17:08

I mean, I think, I think my argument is that, and of course if I was playing a game with someone and they did do that, where they took a shortcut and was like, oh, I made, you know, Uh, I didn't formally declare my attack, so I should be able to take it back or whatever. Um, I haven't drawn prize cards yet, I haven't disrupted the game state at all. Like, I would, um, I would probably then, like, you know, very much push my opponent to play in a more formal manner, and not take shortcuts for the rest of the game. Um, because, you know, you've now broken that, you've broken that trust. Um, but I do think that it should be... I don't know. I feel like it should be, it's not by the letter of the

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 17:53

I think the best way to play Pokemon is to play, like, where, like, you know, stuff that, when you imply, like, intention to attack and use a shortcut, and everybody knows, like, when you say KO, you're intending to attack and take a knockout, like, those are, are functionally equivalent. I don't think you should treat the, the shortcuts as, like, outside the game or different from. From like a formal attack when, like culturally and how, how people play the game. They're the exact same.

Track 1: 18:22

But wouldn't this be the same as, you know, if I play down two level balls, and then my opponent calls a judge and says, you failed the first level ball? Like, like that is currently in the rulebooks, and that is how this has been ruled on, where if you want to shark your opponent when they put down two VIP passes and say that they failed the first one, like that is, that is okay, that's how it's ruled. Like doesn't that, and that, that's under the guides that, you know, you're trying to take a shortcut, it's not in the rulebook, sorry, this is just, this is just how, like, the rules go, you can't shortcut everything, it doesn't just fall under the same grounds.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 18:59

I, I wouldn't say, like, I'd say, I'd say all this stuff comes down to like Norm and Norman expectation. Like I, I think like the established norm within the community is that like when you play those two or something, like you're, you're not intending to fail the first one. Um, and I, but I think like the norm within the community is that, like when you say ko, you're intending to attack. But also that if you say the effect of the attack after, you don't get to imply that you're using loads of different board abilities to achieve that effect, even if you haven't specified what they are yet. Like, you can't

Track 1: 19:34

I don't know if I agree with, I feel like, I feel like the norm, I

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 19:37

and then say that because I said KO, I'm implying that I used Psychic Embrace and threw energy all over my board. Can't say, like, Yoga Loop, and then like, oh, because I said KO, I'm like, implying that I used Double Gunner all over your board, or Alakazam. Like... I think you have to do all of this stuff before, um, before you say the attack. Like, it's way too broad.

Track 1: 20:02

absolutely agree with you that this is how the game should be played. I'm just talking about, if I, if a judge is called and brought over, I want, I want judges to rule consistently on this sort of thing. And right now, it feels like there is an inconsistency on which shortcuts you are and aren't allowed to take.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 20:22

Alright, alright, guys, let,

Track 1: 20:24

whether or not shortcuts are

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 20:25

guys, let, Mike, let me be clear, these guys did this for like, an hour. uh, uh, uh, at the tournament. I know they could go all day on this subject, and obviously the answer is like, You'll never exactly say, this is an appropriate amount of Rule Sharking.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 20:41

Yeah. This was... Hm hm

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 20:43

no other Rule Sharking is, this is where we draw the Rule Sharking line, right, right there! Yeah! Let's, let's talk about the stream, because it sounds like you watched a fair bit of stream, and saw some, some, uh,

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 20:54

I did, I was not at Puria, but I did watch, uh, a good amount of the stream, like you said, um, and, I was just... And this is a continuation of Pittsburgh, but I've been really impressed with the judge calls over these first two, uh, North American regionals. I haven't watched the, uh, I didn't watch Barcelona that closely, so I don't know if it was the same there, but one of, like, the really Terrible things about a lot of the streams last year was how many games were decided by stupid prize penalties. Like, Caden, your friend Cameron, like, he lost that game to Azul strictly because he, like, what did he do? Like, he drew a card from his deck instead of a prize card or vice versa, something like that?

Track 1: 21:42

It was, it was the same thing that Rahul did, um, in top four of, um, OCIC, I think, which was he, uh, I think he drew, like he drew his mulligan before

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 21:57

Yeah, I don't know. It's just like, just like really silly things that honestly have very, very little Uh, consequence in, in a game of Pokemon, um, and reversing it and giving, you know, maybe the knowledge of it to your opponent and getting like a warning is probably fine. It's probably good enough. Like if it happens multiple, multiple times, then of course you escalate, but like the first time, and especially on stream when things are weird, like the. These double prize penalties don't need to happen as frequently as they were, um, because it just makes the viewing experience terrible, uh, first of all, for everyone else, and probably... If the game was not streamed, the two players would have just, like, figured it out themselves. Maybe they would have called a judge, but often times those things just get resolved at the table. Um, and so, like, at Peoria, there was a lot of that, I feel like, on the stream, where people would make these small mistakes, and they would have been two prize penalties in the past, but the judges were able to... Resolve it in such a way that they did not give prize penalties. Um, the only one that's coming immediately to mind was, uh, Rowan in game one. So Rowan made two mistakes. In game two, it was really bad. He got a game loss, um, but he should have gotten a game loss because he VIP'd for three Pokemon on turn one, and then they didn't catch it for like three or four turns. Um, But game, during game one, he played, he did like a bunch of different search cards, uh, and one of them was he used Forest Sealstone, and off his Forest Sealstone, he got a Husuian Heavy Ball. So he Forest Sealstone, grabbed the Heavy Ball, and then immediately played the Heavy Ball, did not shuffle his deck. Um, but he got the heavy ball played, the heavy ball shuffled his prizes, so my guess is that like, the act of shuffling his prizes was kinda like, him thinking that he got the shuffle in, um, and then he did some other actions after that, but like, and they ended up just giving him a warning, where they could have easily given him a game loss, cause they didn't catch it again for another couple turns, but, like, if you watch the stream, It's pretty obvious that the deck was pretty randomized. Rowan was not, like, stacking his deck after the Forest Sealstone. He just, it was like an honest mistake that he forgot. Um, and it really didn't have any, um, there was no integrity issues. The game was not, uh, the game state was not broken from it. Uh, it didn't change really anything. Um, cause there was other search cards that were played that turn. Um, the deck was shuffled a little bit right before the Forest Sealstone. So it was just like... Not really that big of a deal, um, and it could have been a two price penalty or a game loss, but they just gave him a warning, and I was really impressed with that in particular. So I just, I just like the way that it's going.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 24:55

I, I certainly like them trying to, uh, I, I reckon it's, you make a really good point, the, let's not take a 20 minute break to resolve things, like... It's a little bit like the NFL, like you want the, yeah, you want people to be able to go back and look at the videotape to get the call right, but also you want to make the call crisply and move on, right? Uh, what else you got for us? Anything?

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 25:18

Um, not in terms of Peoria, so you guys, Liam, Caden, you guys were at, uh, Peoria. I know things didn't go super amazing for, for you all, but you could give us a little recap of what happened.

Track 1: 25:36

Yeah, sure, um, I can start. So, I decided, I mean, I, I have to be honest, um, this, I just started university, and, um, this was my first tournament since then, and I don't think I played a single game between Pittsburgh and Peoria, um, maybe, okay, I played like one or two, a few games on PTCG, um, live, but other than that, absolutely zero games at Pokemon until arriving at Peoria, Um, however, during that whole time, I already knew what deck I was playing. Um, I was pretty locked in on Chen Pao. Um, I submitted, I actually submitted my list for Peoria, um, a week prior to playing in the tournament. Um, and it was just one card off of, uh, Lucas Xing's list, which is, uh, the Escape Rope. Um, I, I cut the Escape Rope for a Switch card, because I just personally prefer Switch card. Um, so, other than that, it was just the exact same list. Um, and it felt, I mean, it felt great. I love Chen Pao, it's a really, really fun deck. And I think it was honestly a, quite a good meta call. Um, I'm really happy with the choice. Um, and, so my day did not go spectacularly, um, I went 4 2 3, um, I know, I know, you know, hearkening to, to Bradner's tweet after the tournament, you know, a lot of people say that you can't tie on Chen Pao, but, um, somehow, both, uh, both he and I managed to do it quite a few times, um, So, my matchups to kind of run through them, um, round 1 I played against a Lost Tina, um, I kind of just blew up this Lost Tina, um, it really wasn't too close, uh, I hit game, game 1, he didn't even hit a path bump, um, or he didn't even hit paths on turn 1 or turn 2, and, uh, I just hit, hit my path bumps on game 2, and so I kind of just Rolled him, um, and then round two I played against Garde, um, I lost game one, um, in a pretty, a pretty long game one, um, it took quite a while to get through that, and, but he found the pieces, pieces he needed, I wasn't able to switch or cologne. Game two, I kinda, I beat him really, really fast. Um, but as with the Guardian matchup, we just had no time for three games, um, so we did not get close to finishing game three, so I tied round two. Then I played against a Zard, um, this, this player was fairly new, um, he, he was really, really nice, great time playing against him, um, he did not realize that Chen Pao could attack with Greninja. Um, so he did not put Manaphy down in game one, um, and then in game two, he put down the Manaphy, but I was able to switch her cologne, um, and so that was a pretty quick

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 28:35

I assume he did not realize that you played Cologne, so when he played the Manaphy, you could do that. If you, like, don't think about the Greninja, you probably don't think about the Cologne.

Track 1: 28:43

yeah, yeah,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 28:45

Every time, he was like, well, that's never happened to me before.

Track 1: 28:48

Um, then round f Round 4, I played against, um, Shidashi, who was playing, uh, Maridon, and, uh, that, this was a very, very unfortunate set. Um, I, I lost Game 1 pretty much instantly, um, due to just, you know, a really slow start. Game 2, he full bricked, and I, um, beat him in, like, Or no, no, he didn't fullbrick. I just got the first, you know, I was going first, I got the first knockout, and never lost tempo, so I was able to win, um, and then game three, um, was one of the weirder games of Pokemon I've ever played, because we both had very slow, very bad starts, um, which, you know, always leads to the most ridiculous games of Pokemon you've ever played. Um, and, so, I, you know, for example, um, on one turn, I attacked with Frigidbacks for 30 damage to take a KO on a Raikou. Um, just to give you a sense of, of, the, the craziness of this game. Um, I ended up losing that game, um, largely due to him Fleet Footworking, um, two turns in a row. The first turn hitting a boss, the second turn hitting a Forest Sealstone. Um, had he whiffed either of those two, I think I probably would have won the game. Um, so that was a little, that was a little frustrating, but it happens. Um, Fleet Footwork is a broken ability. Um, draw one, strongest thing in the game. Um, then, round five, uh, I played against, um, Kyogre, Lost Stonebox, which was, um, I think it's a stupidly favorable matchup for, uh, for Chenpao. You just have so much time, um, to get one or even two double prize turns. You can just throw down the Manaphy on the last turn to prevent the Kyogre play. So I won that 2 0. Um, then I played against ard. Um, ARD I did not realize, realize it's going to a tournament, but c Zd matches take a similar amount of time, often as guard matches, which I was not expecting. But, um, I very much struggled to get through three games against Czar in this tournament. Um, so I played against Zd. I, um, lost game one pretty, pretty fast one, game two that took a really long time. Um, Because I, you know, I whiffed a KO, he wasn't able to get a KO, like, it just took a long time. And then we, like, had barely started game three when time got called. Um, so at this point, I am, um, 3 1 2. Um, I'm, which feels a little bad, not in great shape. Um, you know, we'll stick it out. So, then I hit another Zard, and I lose. I lose to this guy. Um, and this is a very fast set. I just don't hit the pieces I need. He... Um, one notable thing, he ran Vitality Band, um, which I did not expect, um, so game one, he Arven'd for Vitality Band in order to take a KO on my Chen pal when I had only taken one prize, um, which I should have been expecting, but I wasn't, so, uh, I, had I not taken the KO on the Mew the turn prior, I probably would have won that game. Um, and, and who knows what would have happened from there, but, I lost, um, so I'm out of Day 2 from this point, but I, two more rounds, so I'll finish the day. Um, played against a Turbo, Turbo Lost Zone box, um, I, I mean, anytime my opponent flips over a Comfy, I'm pretty happy, um, to be honest. So, that game was very fast, and pretty easy. Then I played against Rapid Strike, I hate the Rapid Strike matchup. Um, I actually think this matchup is one of Chen Pao's worst matchups. Uh, it is the, I've found that the only way you can win is if you two turns in the row in a row, like turn two, turn three hit, um, k o on VM max, k o on VM max, which is like really hard to do. Um, substantially harder in my experience than switcher cologne. Um, and so, so this, this match, um, I won Game 1 because I was able to do that, and he also had a bit of a slow start. Game 2, I whiffed. I whiffed, I almost, I almost hit it, game two, but I was one energy short, um, so I wasn't able to take the KO on the Urshifu, um, I, I, it was actually a really sad turn, I had, um, Bibberled for five, needing to hit one energy, or one energy, SCR, Out to Energy, and I full whiffed. Had I hit that, I would have knocked out Urshifu, and the game would have been over. But, um, I whiffed, and so he was able to run through my board, KO Manaphy, KO both backs the next turn, and I was dead in the water. Um, and game three, we had, um, we had basically, I was probably gonna lose the game, um, To be quite honest, we hit turn three of time, like, I think I had, I, he had just knocked out both of my backs, um, and he had just done the Medicham play, there was no, I had no feasible threat left on the board, but we weren't able to finish the game. So, um, yeah, top 512, not great, but I really enjoyed playing Chen Pao, and honestly it was great. Great time all around.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 34:28

Nice

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 34:30

Nice. Liam, you want to talk about yours?

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 34:33

I played Gardevoir. I played really badly, and I lost to some Tinas that I shouldn't have, and then I was out of the tournament. Yeah.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 34:45

Yeah. You made it sound like, uh, You are not happy with your play.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 34:51

Yep. I can give you a sense of how bad it was. I lost one game to not pre attaching for Path. Yeah. It's crazy. Crazy thing.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 35:07

So, not to, uh, well, I have a question for you, Caden. Um, or not a, not a question, but a comment. You, you, you said that Zard, you were surprised how long it took. Um, it did seem like a lot of Charizards tied quite a lot, uh, in particular one of my friends that was there. He went 7, 1, 7 with

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 35:34

Hi.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 35:35

Charizard.

Track 1: 35:35

Wow, that's impressive.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 35:37

I mean he didn't lose very much, but...

Track 1: 35:40

Yeah, it definitely doesn't, okay, it definitely does not take as long as Garde, um, but it is, I think, by a substantial margin, the second slowest matchup, at least for Chen Pao, um, in the game right now.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 35:56

Um, one question I had for, for just the broader audience that, that Caden's postgame commentary brought to mind, because I don't think I heard about that last round, is, um, it seemed like, uh, I don't know, I guess if you had asked me a week ago, I would have said, Intelli Energifu is a real deck, and it seemed like it was not a real deck at this tournament.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 36:13

Hmm, yeah, I guess it's...

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 36:18

Am I missing something?

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 36:19

I mean, I don't, it was not on the... Uh, meta breakdowns, so it clearly wasn't played very much, um, but I do think this deck has a little bit of that Decidueye effect from over COVID, where it's like kinda up and down, whether it's a good play or not, um, and maybe this was just not a great tournament for it. I mean, it's Lugia matchup is not great, and Lugia was super popular, um, I think it's Charizard matchup is like... Okay, but not great, and definitely got a lot worse with the 70 HP Charmanders, and Charizard was the most popular deck on both days, so probably those two things made it not as great, but, um... But it also just doesn't seem like it was played very much.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 37:09

That sounds about right. I was going to go back and try and find the Metashare things, because I... I think I was surprised at just how much Charizard there was.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 37:19

Yeah, I have them on my phone.

Track 1: 37:23

Yeah, I mean, it was the top deck, at least, at least day one, I think day two as well, maybe?

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 37:27

it was 15% day one as the number one deck, and 19% day two, so it overperformed into day two, but then I feel like on day two it didn't do super well. Like there's two in top 16, none in top eight. None in the rest of the top 32, like seven to 32 has zero ards. Uh, So I feel like it didn't do super well day two, but it did really good getting from day one to day two.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 37:58

Yeah, I mean, it's Charizard, at least like the way it's being used right now, it's basically just like Arceus. Like, they throw some energy on the hit for 180 every turn, um, with this, like, really high hitpoint attacker. And, yeah, if we use our lessons about Arceus from last format, it's really good at beating people who don't know how to, like, make their deck work to KO high HP stuff.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 38:20

Sure. Yeah.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 38:22

So, good in day one, not good

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 38:25

One, one very interesting thing, Lugia almost always overperforms in that there's a higher percentage of it day two than day one, but this tournament it did the opposite. It was the second most played deck on day one, 13%, but day two it dropped to 9%. So, Colorless Lugia, and, and we have to think, like, uh, this was an event where Colorless Lugia was the dominant Lugia variant, and that variant underperformed. So maybe that means... Single strike is still just better.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 38:59

Yeah, I think that checks out.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 39:02

yeah.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 39:04

Leemioid, Born of Sight.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 39:06

I, I agree. I think single strike is better.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 39:11

So, Caden, you're going to be in Sacramento in just a couple of days. Uh, any, any big takeaways that influence how you think about the problem?

Track 1: 39:23

Um, man, I still really enjoy Chen Pao. Like, I don't even know if it's honestly the best play. For SAC, but I really enjoyed the deck. I, it would take quite a bit for me to switch off of it at this point. Um, especially I don't have that much time to test anymore, so, um, I, I think DT Mew is also really good. Um, Rowan put on a tremendous showing with the deck, um, and so, so that's also very good, and I, you know, I, I love Mew. Very, very, it's very dear to me, so maybe, maybe I play that, um. I don't know. This meta is, this meta is kind of great. There's just so many decks. It's hard, and so many decks that are of similar power levels. Like, I think if you ran this tournament, this Peoria again, um, I would, and, or if you ran it like ten times, um, I think you would see very different results each time. Um, I just, I think we have a very balanced format right now.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 40:31

yeah, I agree with that. Um, oh, another thing with the, one other thing with the meta percentage, that I think we nailed, Liam, Giratina was not very popular. Uh, all these other podcasts and YouTube videos, they're saying, like, Giratina's gonna be the most popular deck, or at least, like, Top two! Uh, but it wasn't even on the chart. It wasn't even on the chart, so I feel like we nailed that one.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 40:58

That's crazy because I hit three.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 41:02

Ha ha ha ha ha. Um,

Track 1: 41:05

I should've...

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 41:06

Like, that should have been a

Track 1: 41:07

I should have cut the Vacuum.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 41:11

Yeah, I don't...

Track 1: 41:13

Actually, yeah. I absolutely should have cut the Vacuum. Um, I don't think it I think I used Every time I saw Vacuum in Peoria, I was, uh, I was sad that that card was lost Vacuum. There was not a single time the whole day that I was glad I had lost Vacuum in my

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 41:31

What would you, what would have, what would it have been instead?

Track 1: 41:35

Probably 3rd back Scalibur, um, but I think it maybe should have been 4th Ultra Ball. I think I would have really liked that as 4th Ultra Ball. Cause every time I saw Vacuum... I was always like, hey, this isn't horrible because at least I can burn a card from my hand. I think, I think an Ultra Ball would just, would just be better.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 41:55

You know, you're trying to get your hand size down every time. you get your hand size down and get a

Track 1: 42:01

I know,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 42:02

dubs.

Track 1: 42:03

you know, Rahul, Rahul and Bradner and them, they cut the, um, cut the third Nest Ball for a fourth Ultra Ball. And I don't know how I really feel about that, but I do think fourth Ultra Ball is strong and, you know, worth, very much worth considering if there's a good cut. And maybe that's...

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 42:22

So what did, so I'm looking at Grant Shen's list, who top eighted, so he had fourth ultra ball, he had fourth ultra ball. That's what it looks like. You, did you, you had fourth nest ball as well, Caden, or no?

Track 1: 42:38

Uh, no, it was

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 42:39

he had four Ultra and four Nests, so what other card did he

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 42:43

he cut the

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 42:43

Oh, he doesn't have a Switch card, yeah yeah

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 42:45

the Escape Rope,

Track 1: 42:46

Yeah, he cut the switch. Which, eugh, like, scary. I gotta be

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 42:51

messed with that, like, it's... I don't, I don't think you need to switch. Like, there's like a few situations where you want to irritate it for it, but like, yeah, he also cut the 70 Frigabax or whatever,

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:02

no, he still ha

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:03

to make it a little

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:04

No, he, he still had 70, he still had the 70 for HP,

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:08

every time you biberal into it, it's bad.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:11

yeah he still had the 70 HP,

Track 1: 43:13

Yeah, which I feel like it's so scary starting Fridge.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:19

I... Maybe I'm wrong here.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:21

yeah he still had it,

Track 1: 43:23

Yeah, he did have it, and I don't know how I feel about that, to be quite honest.

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:28

Oh yeah, maybe, maybe this was

Track 1: 43:30

even, I mean, I mean, if, but honestly, that's even, well, No, rules list also cut, they cut the, um, switch cart. Or, or Rope. But they don't just run the 7 HP Frig. They also run the Kyogre, which is 3

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:46

they, they deoptimized the list,

Track 1: 43:50

I,

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 43:52

they took, yeah, they,

Track 1: 43:53

I, I'm inclined to agree. Um, I do, I don't know. I think, I think that the, there is an argument to be made for the 4th Ultra Ball over 3rd Nest, and I, I kinda like that, but the other changes I'm not sure I agree with. I don't know. Cutting the, cutting the switch cards is scary.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 44:15

It seems like there's moments where you would be really sad. Although I recognize it's another, uh, it's another card where you're like, Am I happy that I drew this? When you draw it, like, down on 9 tenths of the time.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 44:27

yeah,

Track 1: 44:29

Yeah, I mean, it's burnable, so it's not that bad.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 44:33

Alright, um, any other stories of, uh, Mike, you going to any Cups or Challenges recently?

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 44:41

have not gone to anything recently. But I am down in North Carolina right now, for work, and I am planning on going to a challenge tomorrow night, while I'm down here. Heh heh heh heh. Heh heh heh.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 44:52

I am hoping that, like, like, Grant and Chip show up and you just bank all those guys and then you're like, oh, guys, I had to come down to North Carolina to get the easy points, and like, Alex Wilson takes a loss, like, everybody,

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:05

I think I'm

liam_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:06

I

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:09

out to Chip. Chip's like, an hour and a half from where I am, so, they're not I don't think him and Grant will be coming, unfortunately. Uh, I'm in like, the Fayetteville Fayetteville? I think that's how you say it. Fayetteville area. Which is a little... They have a couple stores here, but I don't know of anyone that's around here, but we'll see.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:29

a little off

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:30

Yeah, but maybe, maybe I'll show up and, and I'll see someone I know. We'll see.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:37

Very good. Um, registration. I haven't followed the LAIC registration saga at all, but I'm upset that they tweeted San Antonio coming soon and then did nothing. I already booked my plane tickets for San Antonio, which is out of character for me. But, you know, I grew up in San Antonio. We gotta do that.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:56

Um,

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:57

I need tickets.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 45:58

so basically LAIC registration was today, uh, earlier This morning, and it was in waves, I think wave 2 just happened like an hour or two ago, um, from my understanding wave 2 went smoothly, but wave 1 was a mess, uh, as we all know the RK9 process is they, as you try to register it basically like pits you up against someone and then randomly chooses one of you, um, and that process can take It took a little while to fill up, but this one, for some reason, the website was acting very glitchy, very slow, so, the event didn't fill up for like over an hour, even though like there was, If it was first come first serve, it would have been filled up within a minute. Um, and so people were just sitting there clicking, clicking, clicking, re clicking, refreshing, over and over and over and over again. Um, for like an hour, for some of them. So, I have no plans to go, so I did not experience this, but that sounds like a miserable experience. So stressful. Ugh.

brent_1_10-10-2023_181632: 47:04

normally I wouldn't know this, but, uh, pre releases for the next set are in like two weeks, and the only reason I know that is because I am running one for the first time. Um, so, the last two weekends of October, October 21st are pre releases, so I'm Gettin excited for the new set. The first tournament that will be legal is LAIC. That's why I was thinking about it.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 47:30

We're gonna have to talk about next, probably, either next week or the week after, whether we think... Ironhand will be as impactful as Mr. Gearheart does...

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 47:40

Alright guys, I had, I had two things I wanted to talk about really, really quickly. And the second one is a, is a, would you rather, um, the first one is, uh, absolutely breaking news guys. There was a, let me, let me get, make sure I give you guys the, the appropriate details on this. A, uh, study that has been published by Cornell University last week that is groundbreaking news guys. They, um, they have came up with a physics theory and they practically tested the theory by flipping 350,757 coins. Uh, but there, the physics model theorized that when you flip a coin, it tends to land on the same side. It started,

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 48:30

Oh,

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 48:31

and the answer is that is true. 51% of the time you will get the

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 48:36

I saw that. Yeah, I saw that.

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 48:39

Yeah, I saw that. That's,

Track 1: 48:42

that's, that's insane. So,

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 48:47

so

Track 1: 48:47

so, it's like, whatever face is up, whatever face is up when you flip

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 48:53

that is correct. Well,

Track 1: 48:57

I mean, I, my hope is then Pokemon will take the step to ban coins from, from, as like, legal randomization methods from events then, um, because, yeah, they are not, as shown by this study. But, um, I feel like dice, especially... I think dice are much more random than coins are.

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 49:25

dude. Phone phones would be immediately, I build a, a imitation app that like, looks like Siri, but isn't, and depending on my accent, it'll like, it'll give me the heads or tails I'm looking for or something. Yeah,

Track 1: 49:40

Yeah, or you just make one that flips heads, like, two thirds of the time.

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 49:46

Yeah,

Track 1: 49:47

Like, that's, that's, yeah. If I wanted to abuse the system, that's what I would do. Like, I would, I would make a serial, and those were the rules, I would make a serial like app, or, um... You know, alter series such that, uh, it flips heads, you know, two thirds, seventy five percent of the time, eighty percent of the time. Um, so, this, this, I'm not a fan of the phone solution. I, I think dice are, I think dice are fine.

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 50:15

Alright, well, can, can we all agree I if I said you can choose either like randomness or you always have to go second, but it will always flip heads for you. You would say, oh, I'll go second. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Li Liam is like, I already have a deck built for that

Track 1: 50:33

Every other hammer

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 50:34

What, what if he, what if he played two hammers at a time? What if it's like cross switcher? Would that be two? Would they, would hammers just not be good enough or would that be totally fine?

Track 1: 50:42

you, actually, that would be cool.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 50:45

Wait, but how do you choo how do you choo

Track 1: 50:47

Well, no, what if, what if, what if Hammers had both effects? What if Hammers was, you play one, flip a coin, if heads, toss an energy. Or, play two, toss an energy.

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 50:58

The randomness. Alright. Alright, you guys ready for, uh, here. Here's, here's the, uh, uh, so would you rather, for the rest of your life, you can only hear the first half of a sentence or the last half of the sentence. Everybody talking to you.

mike_1_10-10-2023_181632: 51:20

Uh, last last half is the, is where my mind goes immediately. Because I feel like the last half often has more of the meat, and the first half is often the setup, so you might be able to understand more from the last half, maybe?

Track 1: 51:41

I agree. I agree, I think. But then again, I'm also thinking about all the times where

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 51:48

I'm

Track 1: 51:49

usually, like, I can infer or guess what someone is going to say based on the first half of their sentence, and...

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 51:59

what I

Track 1: 51:59

I think this is just strictly worse than, than only hearing the last half. Like, for instance, take that sentence right there. If you, if you heard only, um, but I think this is strictly worse than, um, the last, than only hearing the last half, like, I think you've gathered the general point of my, of my sentence. Yeah, but I think, I think it's tough. I think I would go last half.

brent_3_10-10-2023_190908: 52:28

Liam. You know, He is, he's, he is like, I don't, I don't need the verb or your adjectives. Just, just gimme, gimme the noun and we're good. It doesn't matter what you're gonna say about Chen Pal.'cause it's already decided. We'll be back next week with Sacramento from, uh, Caden. He'll have won Sacramento and we'll hear all about how he did it. Absolutely incredible. John Paul's our outro. Another part in the books, guys.

Track 1: 52:57

Fantastic.