The Trashalanche Pokemon Podcast
Regidrago, Gardy, Pidgey, Worlds & More!
Not the best editing or audio, but another episode out the door!
Welcome to the Trash Lounge podcast, uh, the only podcast about the Pokemon trading card game. Haven't said that in a while, but it's apparently true, um, attendance is 100%, it's me, Habanave, and Camp Shinoi.
Cam:Uh, yeah.
Abaan:Let's get into it. I mean, the world is actually a lot closer than I thought, so I guess we're gonna have to like, we should probably start talking about some decks and testing. I feel like we, uh, last couple weeks we've just been talking about Garde, there's a lot of, a lot of fish in the sea, a lot of interesting decks out there that I, at least I've been playing with, so. Yeah, you should get into it.
Cam:Yeah, I guess the number one thing
Liam:is, um If you haven't heard already, uh, Drago's like the number one deck, deck's amazing. It's absolutely insane. Um, yeah.
Cam:It's just like everyone is messaging each other like, Drago? And they'll send you their list, and then it's like, Yeah, it's like, yo, you're not that secret, like literally everyone's doing it to everybody.
Liam:Yeah, um, yeah, the deck is really good. It's got the, um, the only important part is you have to Don't use the V Star until like, close to the end of the game, or like, where you can set a game kind of like, on board, right? Um, if you pop the V Star on turn 2, you're making the deck, uh, the deck bad, right? Because then you're, if your Drago dies, you lose. Yeah, don't do that. Which
Abaan:is not, like, you sometimes do have to do that, but like, the Okay, yeah. Like, the threshold is way, way higher than people realize. Like, it's like, if you can play the game at all without using it, you kind of just don't.
Cam:Yeah, no, I I think Mhm.
Abaan:Oh, just like the one thing about the Draugolists I want to point out is like, dude, that, like, because everyone's talking about it, some of the lists already are already super exploitable, so like, I just think it's interesting that like, uh, like, there's a month left, and we're just gonna play this constant game of like, Draugolists are like, like, distributed, people are gonna exploit the list that exists now, then they're gonna put stuff like Raging Bolt, like, back in, and you have to like, deal with this constant cycle, and world there's no tournaments, we're just like, it's like a word of mouth constant cycle of like, switching texts. Yes.
Liam:Um, no, yeah, I was going to say, I think Part of what makes the deck so scary is the aggression, and the option to go aggressive. Like, the times that you do pop the V Star, and these actually happen a fair bit, but it should be like, I'm gonna pop the V Star and get any reasonable hit, I rip the Curem, and then you lose the game. Right? Um, like, it should be, uh, it shouldn't just be like Drago take a prize after you hit the V Star. You know? And then they like, return KO you and you lose. You should be doing, like, you know, making, like, major board damage. Or, like, progressing super, super quickly after you hit the V Star. Um, if you hit it early. I think
Abaan:And I think the other sleepslept on part about that deck is if you have even one energy on your Teal Mask, like, the Teal Mask is such a solid, like, attacker when you Oh, it's so good. Yeah, you can't get a Drago attack together. You're like, Teal Mask for a prize. You're like, against Zard it's, like, completely busted. Like, Teal Mask, trade to Zard is so good.
Cam:Yeah. Yeah.
Liam:Um, yeah, the Teal Mask is so good, bro. It's,
Cam:uh, yeah.
Abaan:I can tell the difference between, like, dragos that are, like, like, obviously some dragos hit the complete nuts on me, and that's, like, that's fine, but in general, like, the ones that weave in a Teal Mask attack somewhere are the ones that I struggle with the most, I'm like, oh. Like, them not just passing under the fact they can't cut Drago is, like, is pretty crushing to me, like, this 180 that was not supposed to be here.
Liam:Yeah, um, um. I, I think because of the e switches, it's also like a much stronger threat than like the raging bolt, right? Or like how Raging Bolt utilizes it. Um, like they can, they can bump the damage and, and make it out of nowhere, right? Which is like, you know, you don't always wanna be burning e switches on the, on the teal masks, right? Those are probably your most important resource, but, um, it, it does help you set up like end of game checkmates where like, you're like, dude, I have like one E switch left, and even though there's no energy in play, I can just make an attacker out of nowhere. Um, yeah, I find that happens a bit.
Abaan:I'm convinced Penny is terrible. I'm not playing Penny in Regino. That much I know. But I was wondering if like, is there any world where I play Thorin? Because like, it is really annoying starting Kyurem, or if you're playing Raging Bull. Dude, I would just play Collapsed. Really? I love Pokestop. I love Pokestop.
Liam:Yeah, but I mean,
Abaan:I don't
Liam:want to play a supporter to do the thing. I want to play a stadium, bro.
Abaan:But Thorn does like real utility outside of just being
Liam:It's the same with the penny, but I mean, they suck, though. Not real
Abaan:utility. No, no, penny's way worse. Well,
Liam:dude, penny's good into block.
Abaan:Nah, bro, your deck is good into block. You don't have to like play penny to be good into block.
Liam:I don't know, it's um, Cher. It's like fine into block.
Abaan:I don't know, the whole time I was playing that matchup, I was thinking like, Dude, it's funny, Regidrago lost the blockbox to the one game we played, but like, I was like, the whole time, I was like, this is so favorite, like, this is like, fluke after the fluke is happening to me.
Liam:Yeah, you have a lot of resources, right? But, I mean, I don't know, more resources doesn't hurt.
Abaan:Do you think, Regidrago, if you were to play this, like, if you had to play worlds, like, in a very short time span, like, the classic, like, if you had to play worlds tomorrow, do you think you need to play, like, Shred, or Radzard, or like, any of those things, or are you just gonna rip it? Cologne, uh, Cologne V Star.
Liam:I don't know,
Cam:um. I think
Abaan:Shred is the worst. I think playing Kena is terrible. I agree.
Liam:Yeah, I definitely wouldn't do that. Um, I guess I was gonna play a 1 1 Tino with the Psychic.
Abaan:Yeah, that was the, that was the idea, but it's pretty terrible, I think.
Cam:Um, yeah, I think I'd just play the Radzard. Um, no,
Liam:I would actually, no, I'd go at it raw. Yeah, I'd go at it raw.
Abaan:Yeah, exactly. I think the Radzard, it will beat some of the lists I projected were good with, like, Mimikyu's and Myst, but the problem is that, like, There's certain lists that will for sure just beat you anyways with the five energies, and then I think starting it is too detrimental in a lot of matchups, and it's hard to use because the kind of radzard decks I appreciate are the ones where I'm able to radzard with a single prize board, and Dragoco can never do that because radzard's the only single prize board in your whole deck. Like, there's just no way your board's gonna be single prize. So, like, you Radzard at 2, it's hard to Radzard at 3, because, like, you're low on E Switches at that point. Yeah, no, the Radzard's
Liam:basically just a Blood Moon. That's why it's, uh
Abaan:Yeah, exactly. Like, if it was, like, Radiant Blood Moon, people would play that card instead. It's just, like, I mean, myself included, like, the obsession of playing a Radiant Pokemon. Radzard's not good. It's, like, it's literally worse than Blood Moon.
Liam:Um, yeah, I agree. I think it's also, I mean, I don't know, getting the 250 is pretty important for Drago, right, because Drago is of course the consensus best pick for Worlds right now, um, and, which makes Radzard a lot better, right? But,
Abaan:it
Cam:kinda sucks, man.
Abaan:If Drago's the Drago's gonna be slotting Lugudra back in? I mean, Lugudra's most lit in Drago mirror.
Cam:Yeah, that's what y'all said, bro. I don't see it. Really? Alright, like, I kinda see it, but
Liam:I feel like a good start is most lit in Dragomir.
Abaan:Yeah, yeah, you think, I've actually came, like, okay, like, exactly, like, most of these matchups, like, it's like Gardymir, right? It's like, oh, dude, my double monkey list is lit in Mir. It's like, dude, If one guy just like starts and like is playing the game and the other guy isn't, it doesn't really matter what cards are in the deck.
Liam:Yeah, I know, bro. The, the Guardi tech is not the, the second monkey. It's the Hyper Aroma, bro. Yes, yes.
Abaan:Dude, I, like, the more I've played this deck, the more extreme I get with it. I'm like, at first, I was like, Damn, it's close. It's pretty close. Like, and then I was like, uh, Hype Aromas are correct, but, like, I can respect in Fairstamp, and I have gone, like, full, full spectrum at this point. I'm like, dude, if you even suggest on Fairstamp to me, it means you've played, like, less than ten games of Guardi. Like, must. It's like a clear factor. Like, you, uh, you can literally tell how much Guardi you've played by how much you like Aroma.
Liam:Yeah. I think the problem is,
Abaan:the problem is when you go second, you don't just like, the argument doesn't always come to your head. Like, you will have to admit that some games you're not going to have the Evo, and then some games you're just going to be forced to go first. And like, those are two, like, such L outcomes if you're playing the fucking two Evo Lumi list. It's just not going to work out.
Liam:Yeah, I was talking with Henry yesterday, um, it's kind of a trap, we would never do this, of course, but the one redeeming factor of the Arven stamp list is the second Evo bumps their odds of ripping off Iono. Like, I, dude, I swear, man, every time I play the, every time I play Iono, I'm like, man, I wish I was playing second Evo. But imagine
Abaan:your Roma, like, exactly, imagine your Roma is second Evo.
Liam:The Evo's better, bro, because we're talking about, like, you basically go second in your turn two.
Abaan:No, no, no, that's not what I mean. I'm just
Liam:You go second in turn one.
Abaan:Instead of, like, wishing you played second Evo, see if you see the Aroma, and then if you see the Aroma, then you're like, man, I wish this was second Evo. You could just wish for second Evo, and then, like
Liam:Well, no, I'd play all three still. I'd play all three. Oh, okay, okay. And I don't even know what the card would be. It's every card in my hand. I'm always getting the second Evo. Well,
Abaan:of course, yes.
Liam:I mean, yeah, dude, it's a terrible feeling, bro! Every time I play against the, the Stamp, the Stampless, they like, don't open Arven, and then they rip the Iona, and I'm like, Ha! Giga Punish, and then they just rip the Evo, and I'm like, damn, bro. She got it like that.
Abaan:I would explain this to a lot of people, though, in that matchup, like, if they're Evo ing Berkelius, and I'm Aroma ing them, then I'm so much deeper. Yeah, you're a cycle ahead. Like, no, I'm like two cycles ahead once I start Devo ing them back, like, I like, Aroma, Mystics, Devo, and then they like, do something. They devo me and I just draw six more. I've always had my two monkeys by the time we start hitting each other. And like, if you have two monkeys and you start hitting each other, like, uh, there's so many creative plays you can do. Because like, the fact Dude,
Liam:yeah, that's why we said the monkeys are more important. Because the monkeys enable like all
Cam:your plays, right? Like,
Abaan:exactly. Do you think you need Manaphy? Like, I was like, I was watching back Henry's match against Noah. And I just think like, they both went for Manaphy so early. And I was like, actually just confused. Like, it made sense from Henry's perspective, because Noah didn't even bench a monkey, so it's like, the Manaphy, like, checkmate to the fuck out of him. But Noah did not need Manaphy, like. Yeah,
Liam:no, no, Henry, I think, I think Noah went for like a really early screentail or something, and then Henry just like insta benched Manaphy and like trapped the screentail on board, boom, he's cooking up. Um,
Cam:but, yeah. I just wanna, yeah, like, listeners, I just wanna let you guys know, this is actually also how it just happens in the Discord, like, it's the Regidrago chat, and we're talking about Regidrago, and then Liam and Abahn just slide in, talking about the Regidrago matchup against Gardevoir, And then it's just talking about Gardevoir. So yes, once again, we're back here. It's just, do you see how, like, seamless and smooth that was? Like, they've just gotten so good at it. They slide in there with the Gardevoir talk, and now we're just talking about Gardevoir, and or a Gardevoir. And go like this. I
Abaan:think I can't even tell you. Yeah. Oh
Liam:my god.
Abaan:Oh yeah,
Liam:we did a, we did a segway from Regidrago mirrortex and talking about Gardevoir mirrortex. Um,
Cam:yeah.
Abaan:You know what a matchup for the listeners is about? Like, you know, I just wanna, I just wanna know, like, er, not know, I want you guys to know, like, Stefan has been spreading misinformation. Like, you don't just, like, win the Stonelax vs. Gardevoir matchup because you hit, like, Exodia board. You don't win at all. Like, you can just play one handheld fan, it's already looking bad. If they play two, like, pack it up. Like, doesn't, this is like
Liam:That matchup is, like, 95 5 for Gardevoir. Like, You have to, like, move heaven and earth in your decklist to have, like, a chance. And, like, against Block Locks, every time every other deck techs, they're like, Oh, I guess I just, like, 100 0 them now. But, like, when Gardevoir techs, you're like, Damn, bro, I get to, like, maybe 70 30 even when you tech, like, super hard, bro. Like,
Abaan:like, so cooked. The one tech that no one knows about that, like, actually cooks Block Locks? Radiant Alkazam. I'll say it, bro. That, you do like 400 damage every attack. That card is broken. That
Liam:is, that's such cat, bro. It gets block
Abaan:blacks, you actually get the 400 in. Like, it's, it's, it's so good against block blacks. If you want to be block blacks and guardi, play the Radiant Alakazam. And like, play like three of the ability blockers, at least. Maybe four, if you want to be safe. And you'll get it. Yeah, dude, I
Liam:think with three ability blockers, you're okay.
Abaan:Especially if one of them's clefki, because they might cornerstone you.
Liam:Dude, yeah, I mean, Alakazam is not, it's not that good. You get to maybe the like 70 30 board, bro.
Cam:Like,
Liam:you're like, um, like the best thing it does is it lets the boss take two prizes. And like, I guess it lets you knock out on turn around, but like,
Abaan:it doesn't,
Liam:yeah, no, those are big, but it's still, it's still loseable, even with those, right? Oh yeah,
Abaan:you'll never get the matchup to be unlooseable, like you can always prize too many things, you can always get fluted for too many things, and like, a lot of terrible things can always happen to you, that matchup is like so, it's always hanging on a knife's edge. Like
Liam:yeah,
Abaan:and the worst part is you can't even like find Alakazam that easily so like there's often like a time where your board has like that vulnerability and they could just like Flue or Eric as like a bunch of annoying things on the bench while you're trying to find Zam because I don't play Nesball My main search is like 4 Poffin, 3 Artisan and and like I guess I have 2 Ultra Balls So like I either raw draw Alakazam or I have to just Ultra Ball for it. I've been Ultra Balling for it.
Cam:Yeah. Yep Beep beep beep beep beep, yep. Oh,
Abaan:also the, like, the sauce, like, dude, I feel like, I don't even mind, like, I was thinking, like, this is gonna be, like, my huge edge, but, like, I, I feel like I can just tell people things, and, like, they still won't even, like, implement it correctly. Like, the sauce in Mirror is, after that war of, like, getting the two monkeys out, you can, um, you can bench Alekhazam, like, if they Guardian swing you or something, you can bench Alekhazam. And put 80 on a on the Guardi.
Cam:Sure, and D. Va. Yeah.
Abaan:Yeah. And then you get a whole turn back, and then you have the two monkeys out, so then you can, um The next turn, you can like, flutter, uh, and take two prizes, and like, then you can go to like, Basically, they take one prize, and, and leave a little bit of damage on the board, and then all of a sudden, you get the turn back, you flutter, you go two prizes ahead, and you have two monkeys, and the two prizes ahead Yeah,
Liam:no, of course, every time you pull out the D. Va play, like, you should be winning, unless you somehow fell behind, like Massively at the start, you know? Like
Abaan:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And they can't really do it back, cause like, they have to use an attack. Like, as long as you clean the damage off your Guardi, like, That's why swinging with Guardi X is like, unless you have a second one on the bench, it's pretty, uh, It's pretty bait. Because when you go for that, you just, like, open yourself up. Yeah. You have to, you can do it with second Guardi, though. And then it's, like, pretty lit.
Liam:Yeah, like, I mean, even then, it's sometimes, like, a little bit sus. Like Um, I don't remember exactly, but like, yeah, like, I guess you can get like, um, like CC Flutter Devo'd or something, right? But, um
Abaan:Yeah, some miserable things can happen. Like, in that matchup, like, you always have to be walking out for like the CC Flutter stuff, which is why Teugarty feels good. Like, otherwise, like, you're so susceptible to that randomly.
Cam:Yeah.
Abaan:Also, I cut the Cress, so you do get into spots, like, at least, I've never actually played the matchup without Cress, because, like, when I had Cress, sometimes I'd discard it early, and I'd be like, well, I got so punished, because now I'm getting Iona to 1, and I have no, like, artisan artisanable threat that just wins the game. And, like, Alexander's, like, kind of a reasonable proxy for Cress, because you get to, like, reach a little bit, but, like, it's not the same thing, obviously.
Cam:Yeah.
Abaan:Not the same.
Cam:But
Abaan:yeah, the main thing was like I really wanted to get that handheld fan starlaxing off my chest bro like people, uh, people just need to play the matchup like the funny thing is all the blockplex players know that what I'm talking about is true but it's like all the guardi players who like still are coping like I'll just like checkmate them.
Liam:Yeah, no, it's because the guardi players they haven't actually played it bro like they I mean, it's because it's brutal to play against. Nobody likes playing against Blackhawks like that. It's so boring. Oh my god.
Abaan:Really? I enjoyed it when I was playing, um, Alecki, Sandshrew. It was pretty lit.
Liam:Yeah, no, exactly. When you're, sure. No, like, when you're playing Pidget, every matchup with Pidget is so fun. Like, Because, yeah, you have like, you have this like, inevitability, and you have like, so many threats, you're like, so fun, but
Abaan:Except, like, the rundown matchups are like, their own kind of fun, but they're, it's so simple to be like, oh, it's only fun when you win, but it kind of does feel like that, like, when you're winning one of those rundown matchups, it's so, like, you're just a step ahead of them, and you just like, sweep it out, but I will say like, the least fun ever is when you're losing those, and you're like, I just got my Pidget and then it's like CC, blow it up with like Varadon or Raging Bolt or whatever and you just like fall apart. That
Liam:doesn't I don't know, like, yeah, I agree that's how you lose but I think um, I don't know, I think it's always fun because I um, I feel like I always have a clear plan of what to do and like if I hit what I need I win and there's like, that's like the most fun, fun thing in Pokemon, I guess, or like, it's like the happiest I am in Pokemon, right? Like, you have a clear line to victory, and if you just rip what you need, you win? That's like, all I ever ask for.
Abaan:Yeah, but most decks, they have like, real draw engines. Like, that's when it feels fun. Like, when I was playing Mew, or like, when I was playing, uh, even like, Guardian, it's like, fun. It's like, okay, like, I'm drawing six cards, how am I gonna make my six cards, like, the most likely to hit, like, one of these two, and then I'll Arven for the other one. With Pidget, there's no, like, draw engine. It's like, like, you hitting what you need is literally, do I topdeck, like, one of the two cards, so that I can Pidget for the other one?
Liam:Yeah, no, you're not wrong, bro. If you have the Pidget out, the deck is working. If you don't, it's like you're not doing anything, right? Yeah, exactly.
Abaan:Oh, dude, when the Pidget dies, it's like, the most you can hope for is like, I can probably CC an attack with something that was like, already on the board. That's like, yeah, that's like a pretty good hand.
Liam:Yeah, no, you get to play off like an Arven, like max, right?
Abaan:The whole time your Pidget dies, you're just thinking about how you get the next one out, because like, you're not, yeah. Yeah,
Liam:no, exactly, bro. Maybe I can buy like one instant charge here and then if I get like Candy Thornton off the instant charge, I have my pitch it up. Like
Abaan:I feel the most, bro. I miss it though. I, every time I, uh, play the, I want it back, but I, I don't think it's worth the slot actually. I assume, I
Liam:assume you're playing the stretcher, right? Yeah. If you cut the Thornton. Yeah. I think those two, like relatively the same thing
Abaan:they do except like in the very niche sad. Yeah, I know Ex
Liam:except for Thornton.
Cam:Yeah. Except when Thornton goes crazy. But. Yeah.
Abaan:Do you think, you know, I was thinking about like disrespecting, like what I can disrespect when I, uh, like build my Pidget list, right, and I've completely like gone too far, I think, I like disrespect like all the like bot decks, like I, like my list right now has like no outs to like Raging Bolt, Lugia, yeah. Even Mirai don't suss, like
Liam:Oh yeah, dude, I I am the same as you, my My out to Lugia in Raging Bullets is the uh, I play the Blood Moon. And I'm just like, I'm a
Abaan:Yeah, that's like Kelsa,
Liam:I know that too. Fear of Horse and Will, bro, I'm just gonna Yeah, just Blood Moon and hope it gets there. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, like, Raging Bull players,
Abaan:all they have to do is like Stop and breathe. Like if they, uh, yeah, I know, right? If they just like, like are panting and they just like run over you, like, then you have a chance.'cause then you can hit them with the iono boyfriend. But if they just like, breathe for a sec, it's, it's not looking good. Not
Liam:looking good. Switch card. I'll discard all the energy off my bench. Kale, your sn wax. See what happens.
Abaan:Yeah. That's, that's the out.
Cam:Yep.
Abaan:I mean, I played miss for, I, I don't play miss for sisters right now, but I guess that's like a side out is like you used. Yeah. No Chuck play.
Liam:Yeah, that's, that's what I play. Um, and,
Cam:and so like, yeah, it is, uh, yeah, they, uh
Liam:You can tell yourself that they can't just like sit there forever, but the thing is they don't have to sit there forever. They're like, all right, dude, Asada, I have seven energy on board, you can play sisters, and then I'm gonna like take a knockout every single turn for the rest of the game, like, but, you know, then I tell myself I'll get there off like Snorlax, Sisters, Blood Moon, right?
Abaan:Yeah, and you won't bro, you just won't. It's just like, if you get the matchup, it just doesn't work. Yeah, I guess, I guess we have gotten a little sidetracked again about Guardi. I guess another big, big thing I wanted to tell you guys for my testing is that I think this Dusknoir is like, it's like, pretty good in the Pidget, like, Charizard Dusknoir is like, decent in like, Pidget type matchups, like Charizard Mirror and stuff like that, but like, I think Dusknoir is like, kind of fake. Like, you're almost better off just playing like, a really, really straightforward list, like, from like, From EYC time, honestly, with like, all you have to do is add the Fezendipity, and then just play like whatever was already popping. Get the multiple turros, get the Collapse.
Liam:Yeah, I agree.
Abaan:Two Charmeleon. I
Liam:think, um, I think the Dusknere's good, but it is You have to give up so much for it, and I don't think it's quite that good, right? Like, it is, you're gonna see one of those pieces, like, basically every single hand you draw. And, I don't think it's, it's good all the time when you do. Like, like Like,
Abaan:there's like, so many masters you're not even allowed to play. Like, I was like, too, um, too optimistic when I first heard about the card. I was like, oh yeah, I'll just get Dusknoir against, like, Duraludon. For this, like, CPOW, and like, I'll Dusknoir a bib, and like, CC the other one, like, no, bro, like, none of this is happening, like, giving a prize is way too much, like, expense, you don't have enough Pidget Searches to, like, get these other cards on the side, like, it truly is only Crack and Pidget Mirror, and I swear that Dusknoir, like, It, it never gets used, like, er, not never, it gets used like 1 in 15 games, and like, it's like this, like, on the 14th game, you're like, Dang, I haven't used it in like 15 games, like, I'm gonna cut this card. And the 15th game rolls around, you use it to like, some like, Reasonable effect, and you're like, oh, it's worth the slot again. But lowkey, like, uh, I kinda just wanna play like, if I'm gonna play Duskmoor, I kinda just wanna play a 1 1 line. But it just feels stupid to play the 1 1 line and not have a Duskmoor. Like, you may as well at that point, right? But like, that extra deck slot is like a relevant factor, like, I kind of just want to not have it.
Cam:Yeah, um, I, I don't
Liam:know, I think, I think if you're gonna play it without the Duskner, like, yeah, um, then it's not, it's not worth it at all, because it doesn't
Abaan:I know, but I think that, that I agree with you, and that's why I've gone the next step of like, yeah, it is not worth it at all. I'm just cutting this whole line, like, getting my thoughts back.
Cam:We're in the same boat. But like,
Abaan:I need to test if the mirror, if they get to like Duskloft CC banned, are you just like, cooked? And I think the answer is no. I think as long as you have bib, like, and you just like, you just respawn with a single prize board at some point, like, I don't think you're actually like, cooked at all. I think you're totally fine. Very playable. Like, they gave you a prize compensation, and like, you can definitely get there.
Cam:I agree.
Abaan:I wonder, though, in that deck, like, Is that Darkness package like ever worth it? I'm like very interested in like the Darkness 220 package. But I just haven't, I just, dude, everyone says that though and like no one's like put together a list. Like I just want to know like what are we gonna do? Like everyone's like oh that has so much potential but like when it comes down to it I'm only ever going to test my like towards art list right now.
Cam:That doesn't even beat Snorlax right? Like
Abaan:Yeah, because the Mimikyu's, right? The Mimikyu's still too much, right? Yeah, oh my lord. And the fighting guy, fighting Ogrepon.
Cam:Yeah, it's brutal.
Abaan:I think that people just don't understand, like, I guess the idea is that you can actually like, maybe you can like, Radzard or Charmeleon or whatever, and like, the reason that Mimikyu actually puts on so much pressure is because like, You can't, like, just switch into Zard when you go back to Snorlax, but, like, if you're never one shotting Snorlax, I don't see how you, how you win. But you have the poison tool, so, like, Lux can't Snorlax this out of range, but, like, you can kill, like, Bravery, Charm, and Vest. It's, like, not the worst, but I think Cornerstone is, like, the reason you lose, right?
Cam:Yeah, I mean,
Liam:I don't, I don't see any way to win there, yeah. Are you
Abaan:gonna play Cologne and Zard if you're playing it?
Cam:Um, if I was playing it, it's not, it's, it's
Liam:for Garde, Mimikyu, and Iron Thorns, bro.
Abaan:Really? You're not worried about Block Clacks? I think it's partial, or do you think you lose anyways? Yeah, I think you
Cam:lose anyways.
Abaan:The Duskner line with the Cologne is getting, like, to territories where you might win. But, I agree. Yes. Like, I played it in my deck, with the Cologne, and I was like, this is kind of coped. I mean, the one thing is, you do have the side out of, like, uh, you have Bradzard. Bradzard. So if you can, like, power up your Rad Zard in Cologne, like, maybe that stops them from going Lone Wellspring and, like, that's enough. But yeah, I'm not a huge believer. And the other side thing is you can, um, you can use Charmander or, yeah, you can just use Charmander to soften up the the Wellspring if if it's Lone Wellspring and there's no vest and then hit it with the the Rare Candy Zard. And then if they have, like, one of the health tools, like, Bravery Charm or whatever, just, like, make sure you combo the Jammy Tower. I think it's, like You do have winning chances with Cologne, and it's like enough to not scoop, but I think like yeah, if you're not playing Dusknoir, maybe just cut the Cologne, and save the spot, and just lose. Just scoop it up when you see the fighting guy. Yeah. Does that bother you though? Like, the idea that if you would play this deck at Worlds, like, you would lose to one card, like one specific card, and you literally just pack it up? I
Cam:mean, I think, I don't think the Cornerstone's that good Without everything else,
Liam:right? Like
Abaan:Like, it definitely invests in Block Lax, that's already enough. Like, they have Sylene, like, Yelch here. Yeah, no,
Liam:no, yeah, in Block Lax, it's obviously enough. But, like, I was wondering, I guess, if you meant that as, like, you know, if they throw a Cornerstone and Raging Bolt, you lose.
Abaan:No, no, no, I just meant it as, like, I don't like that Block Lax, like, play a card that they're for sure playing, and, like,
Liam:Yeah, no, yeah, I think if you, if you're playing Zara, you're just accepting that you're going to lose to Black Ox, right?
Abaan:I don't think you have to. I mean, there's definitely ways, like, with um, with Alekki, or you're Yeah, sure, you can
Liam:play Alekki in
Cam:beta.
Abaan:I can't remember the conclusion. Can you, do you win as Alekki if you're not playing Sandshrew?
Cam:Um
Abaan:Like, they Zerosik press your hand, they can like Yeah,
Liam:I think that Zerosik is actually a little bit too much.
Abaan:Yeah, I agree. I think you need to play Sandshrew and Alekki to win, for sure. Or you need to play Sandsh er, Sandshrew. I was playing Alecki and my Duskgnore list. That was working. That was cooking block lacks. Because you can, like, superodd and you can, like, get them to, like, one prize. And, uh, that's just, like, so good. You get them to one prize, and then if they go lone cornerstone, you can probably deck them out. And if they don't, you can, uh, you're just one shotting everything in their deck, right? And you're rather than hacking for one fire, which is, uh, the best part. It's like the Tord thing where he said to play fortress, but with extra steps with the superodds superodds. Same concept
Cam:though. Do you think, um,
Abaan:that Zard list though, with Duskdorm, is there like, is there a matchup I'm not thinking about that Duskdorm's crazy in? Like, what is, like, what are the slept on matchups? Like, obviously it's good in Mirror, and like, other Pidgey type decks, but like, what is it like, what are like, some sleeper applications of it?
Cam:Probably, um, probably, like, it's probably good against anything that's big, right?
Liam:So it's probably, it's probably fine against Drago, like.
Abaan:Yeah, yeah, the Dusk Glops is like fine against Drago, sure. Because, like, it's the same pigeon math, like, hitting the CC. Yeah. But I think that list is It's like, it's like very rare,
Liam:right? Because you have to hit it, like, turn one, they can't have taken a prize, like, you know, it's, you know, very rare, but
Abaan:Like, it's very hard for you to not just give up another prize somewhere randomly via the Dragapult pressure, and then, like, It's already scary, like, oh, I gave them a prize, they took a free one with Dragapult, then they, like, Teal Mask Azard, like, You're getting to territories where you can't even use the Razard one prize board to, like, bring it back. You're just gonna lose.
Cam:Yeah. I think actually the Radzard
Liam:one price board is no longer a thing in Zard, uh, even with the bib, I think it's not worth chasing at all. You should just be trying to Radzard on four and prevent the double gust. Um, because In
Abaan:one matchup? Because I agree with you, but, like, it sometimes just doesn't work. I guess
Liam:against Raging Bolt and, like, Dragapult. Um, you know, those specifically.
Abaan:I don't, I don't know,
Liam:like, it happens in some percentage of the games, but It's, it's so much harder, like, I feel like the ideal position that you went to this, like, one price board was against, like, the Mirror, right, and it was, like, 20 percent of matchups, right? Um, because that's, that's a game where you have, like, 8 turns to set it up, but against Raging Bull, like, you have to, like, Turo your two prizer on, like, turn 4, and hit Radzard Energy, like, it feels like a lot, and, like, have the bib ready so you don't lose to Iona, like, And you have to, like, consistently be streaming, like, Charmander's and Radzard, like It is, it is a ton of pieces to make happen, like, very quickly. You don't have, like, the same amount of time that you do to set it up. And it's a, it's a large combo to set up, so it's, it's very hard to do. I find it a lot easier to, like, or like, much more often, I'm, I'm trying to push the Radzart on, on 4. Because that's, like, yeah, I mean, that's just, like, the easiest way to set it up, I guess.
Abaan:Yeah, I mean, I have, I used Radzart on 4 quite often. It's just, like, I think with the Collapse, you have the high roll potential of, like, Like, yes, you, it's not always gonna work out, but, like. The fact that you have a way to not, like, not use a supporter, and then you also play stamp, like, I do just find myself, like, on certain turns, like, digging so many cards. Like, I'll stamp Iona, and, like, I just find the collapse naturally, and, like, Yeah, after I see, like, ten cards, I find the collapse, and then I'm already in the position that I want to be in, right? And, or often it'll be, like, Zard, Pidget, and then I just, like, I collapse away the Rotom, and then it's, like, once one of these two things die, I'll just terra the other one, and I'm already there. I'm at my two prize board. Noise
Liam:back. Uh, we talked about Zard for like, I don't know, maybe 10 minutes? I don't know. Um.
Cam:Uh,
Liam:Raging Bolt. Yeah, I think Raging Bolt's the other one. Um, I guess that's a good point to talk about. Uh, Tablemon's, like, top six decks or whatever. We've hit on Gardi, Regidrago, Zard.
Cam:A little bit of Blockbox.
Liam:Yeah, a little bit of Blockbox, but the other ones that Tablemon had were Raging bolt and drag, raging bolt drag apol. Um, yeah, I,
Abaan:dude, draga bolt is terrible. If you're gonna play drag apol in your deck, it, there should be a red drago in your deck. That's, that's my stance. Like you drag apol on turn two, like a hundred percent, like two times as often. with fucking Drago than you do with Dragapult. It's just impossible. Like, oh, I'm gonna hit my Neo up, like, Pidgeot into Drago, er, not Drago, Dragapult, Neo up energy, like, that is not happening more than like one every, like, three games, maybe four, one every four games. Like, at least Regirago, like, gets it done. Like, turn two Phantom Dive, that's where the power of Phantom Dive comes from, where you can, like, kill the Pidgey or whatever before it's had a chance to evolve. Like, too late.
Liam:Um, I, I don't completely agree. I think I think there's a lot to be said for, like, the endgame power of, of Dragobolt. I think it's a lot stronger. It's, like, much more sustainable, um, and it's, like, the active's a little bigger. I think, I think the bench liabilities are, like, you know, there's pros and cons. They're not two prizers, but they're, they're really soft, which means they, like, die to, like, monkeys and stuff, right? But I think it's like, it's like somewhat legit. I don't, I would definitely not put it in the same tier as, you know, the other four decks like Drago, Boltz, Zard, Gardi, but I think it's, you know, there's, there's arguments for it. I don't think it's like just worse Drago. I think it's, you know, it's its
Abaan:own deck. I think especially with the Zard, it's, um, it is actually one of the better versions of Zard. It's like a better version of Zard than Dusknoir, for sure. Like, I mean, maybe I'm just coming off as a Dusknoir hater, but like, it's valid. I think Dusknoir is like, the most over talked about card, and I was like, on board with this until I played the deck a lot myself, and I was like, this is, uh, this is not, this is not what everyone is telling me about, you know? Like, it's not that good.
Cam:Genoi, do you like Dusknoir and Zard? Um, I mean, I just think there's like 80 to 100 cards you could probably put in Zard and they all feel kind of good depending on the situation you're in. Um, it's just like, what situation do you think you're gonna see the most? Um, if you run down, like, the matchups, like, I think against Raging Bolt, it's pretty dead. Um, I think it's like, potentially okay against Regidrago, because it like, allows you to hit that higher damage earlier, if you high roll. Um, but if you go second, it's probably just gets picked off by Polt, but I think you probably just lose against Regidrago if you go second most of the time anyways. Um, it feels overkill against Gardevoir, like you just don't really need it. Like, all the time, but, um, you know, Double Devo is annoying, so maybe you do want the extra speed, and I think you need it in Mirror, so it just might be one of those things where you might just have to play it, um, depending on what decks you're gonna see, because that's quite a few decks where it's like, decent to solid, right? Yeah, yeah, right? Like, that's 50 percent of the meta, like, you're just gonna take a worse matchup. Against 50 percent meta, unless you think the other two decks are gonna be the ones that you face a lot, right? Like, if you think you're gonna face a lot of Bolt and Gardevoir, maybe you don't play it, right?
Liam:Yeah, I agree with that. I think, I guess what I was getting at earlier was that you give up, you give up a lot, right, like, it is, it is impacting, like, you know, a lot of games, but, you know, five cards, I think, like, no matter where you put them, also impact a lot of games, right? Like, there are four cards, however many you're committing to this dust canary. Um,
Cam:and so, Yeah, like,
Liam:it's helpful for sure, but, yeah, I mean, like you said, I think there's, there's a ton of other cards that you could play that are also, like, reasonable good cards. Like,
Abaan:once someone, like, takes the, like, the veil off, like, you have to play this line, you just remember, like, wait, Xard has so many spots, like, I'll put my second Tarot back in, my second Charmeleon back in, like, let's get the Biblide going, like, you got, you have so much world, like, so much, so much more, like, world to operate if, like, You just get to like, someone just tells you like, hey man, this Dusk of Real Life's not good. Like, I feel like that all the time with a lot of my decks, but it's like, if someone just like, like when you play Guardi, right, you're like, oh dude, someone just told you like, take out the Drifloon Charm, and you're like, oh wow, now I have Third Dark, Second Monkey, like, does it like, not to get back on Guardi, the point is just like, there's so, like, once someone tells you that a car, like a car that everyone's playing is like, not good, it like, frees up so much, like, creativity again. Like, you do so much, so many cool things that you like, didn't even know was possible, because like. I've
Liam:said it before, but that's the um, that's something I'll always glaze, is like, not, not just identifying what the good cards are, because I feel like that's like, an easier thing to do, but identifying what you can get away without, right? Like, finding good cuts is, I think, like, one of the most important skills, um, in Pokemon. It's the hardest, hardest thing to do.
Abaan:The one thing I feel really, like, sure about myself is like, I swear I can get there with like, the least amount of cards. Like, I think that that's like, it's so, they're so obvious to me that some cards are just doing like, they're making it seem like I'm like, smashing them harder, but like, I like winning like, the most nail biter games because I've cut all the good cards, and like, I have like, exactly enough stuff to win.
Liam:Just what you need, right? Like, just what you need. I, yeah, I'll leave it there. Um, but, HenryTad is an amazing job at this.
Abaan:Oh, yes, yes, of course.
Cam:And I think it's just general deck building, right? Like, you just, I don't know, you just get, you get attached, you get attached, and you get attached to certain cards because you like using them, or you're just like, oh, I use it a lot in this situation. You don't see how much you can change, or how easy it could be to change just by adding a few other cards in that are also just better in other matchups.
Abaan:It's like the Chinchino thing, right, in Lugia? I think Chinchino may be correct again, but like, the point is when Chinchino was not correct. It was like, everyone who like, the argument was always like, well, I used to like, every game, like, I'm always like, using one shot, and like, people couldn't visualize, like, but what if you just had to use hands in Lugia, and you just had to like, be more creative, like, could you still get there, and like, the answer's like, was, was yes, because Zard was like, pretty on the, on the decline. Maybe now, like, if we want to talk about that a bit, like, Tenchino, I think, may have to come back in like, thicker lines, because it's too difficult to play the deck without it.
Liam:Right. Yeah, I just like, you know, you think about your matchups without the Chinchino, and like, there's, there's some bigger stuff in the meta now, right? Like, it's not, it's not just a, you know, Iron Hands turbo farm. And so yeah, I think, I think you have to play the Chinchino, but Chinchino is, ah, no good. It's
Abaan:funny,
Cam:like,
Abaan:like, I think that Lugia has gone full cycle, where it was like, there was a small period in the middle where we were playing Chomansky's list, and it's like, wow, Lugia can be a consistent deck, like. This is, this is great. And now, like, it went, like, it started with, like, it just has to be a 3 3 Chachito high roll, and, like, you just draw what you draw, and, like, you hope to draw up for good cards, but, like, now we're back there. We've literally come full circle to, like, Lugia just needs to high roll people, and, like, you need to play the least consistent list ever, but it needs to be, like, max power, and, like, you're gonna win worlds by just, like, drawing hot ten rounds in a row.
Cam:Yeah.
Abaan:The thing I'm gonna say is, like, Lugia, like, Lugia was over teched for at NAIC, like, people were playing Sinnoh and Ehammer. Like, Lugia got, like, the brunt of hate for, like, no reason. That will not happen at Worlds. So, Worlds, at least you'll have a fair chance against some of these decks.
Liam:Is that what
Cam:you're gonna say? Is there, um, so I know this is like the six decks that I, you know, that I think most people would agree on. I think our group is like, most iffy on Lugia just because we're just iffy on Lugia in general as a deck. Like, always we don't like it. But we also just know that it's kind of right there. In terms of like, maybe another deck is right there, and I'm not sure we're giving enough credence to, is potentially Maridon. Um Because it, I mean, I know you can say it's shaky, but like, if you look at Lugia, or, like, something like that, I think it also has a very shaky matchup. If you're considering it, like, your Lugia is pretty good. Um, I would say you might, it might be the best deck against Gardevoir. Like, there's just so many decks that struggle against Gardevoir, unless they're Drago popping off on you. Um, I don't think the Raging Bolt matchup is the best. Too bad, especially if they're like, playing no Charms, and like, less of that kind of stuff, which our list currently has, and then I tested against Jordan, um, and he just like, beats me because he hits his Gusts, and he just gets the first knockout, and you're like, oh, like, it's just a race anyways, like, you just see who, and that's, um, and then it's like, like, the Drago matchup is probably not good, but hey, if they just start Drago, that's all they have, and you clap it with them right on, like, You might be able to cheese in there too, right?
Liam:I've heard that the Drago matchup is actually good, cause you just like, you just farm Teomask every turn.
Cam:Oh yeah, that could be, and then you just have, yeah, that's true.
Liam:Yeah, I think that deck is actually, actually pretty good. That's a good point.
Abaan:The Zard matchup is like, unfixable.
Cam:Sure, like, yeah, every deck has a bad matchup, but I also think, like, if people are playing Dusknoir and this other stuff, there were points in the season before where I thought it was close if you, especially if you put something like a Tomb in your deck, or, um, you know, like, any other kind of tech, and they're just, like, also inconsistent because they have other stuff, like, maybe you can just tease them enough times where you're like, eh, like, I'll just take that kind of, like, unfavored matchup and maybe I get them.
Liam:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, I think that was back when we had Flaaffy, like, because I had the same feeling that you did, that like, you know, you could actually get there with Miraidon, at least with the current Miraidon, like, you know, if you go like double gen hands turn one and then it dies, you're never hitting Raishu for the rest of the game, right? Which is like A lot worse.
Cam:Yeah, it's probably just like predicated off of like a bravery charm and, and like just actually getting them because they're deck, deck folds within the first two turns. Like if they get going you lose, but Spiritomb's also just, I don't know if you're trying to beat Blockbox or whatever else, like it might be good in other situations, or you can deem it good enough. So I don't know, I think it's close.
Liam:Yeah, and I think losing to Zard is not the worst thing in the world. Like I think, I think Zard should probably drop off in play rate a little bit from like where it, at least where it was like. When the people, like, coming out of NAIC, where they're like, oh, like, Zard's, like, so much better because of Duskner, it's gonna be, like, the clear BDIF or whatever, like, I don't think it actually is, like, that going, going into worlds, um, if not right now, in, like, a few weeks. And so I think losing to Zard is not, like, the, the craziest thing in the world. That's, like, something you should be, like, confident
Abaan:about. There's like a triangle, but it's like, it's the worst triangle ever because Drago somehow kind of beats both decks. Like, to me, like, like Drago, Gardi, and Zard, like, every matchup of that, like, Trinity is, like, so hard to explain. Like, I, I, dude, to this day, people don't know who beats, who wins, Gard Zard versus Gardi, like, and then, like, Drago, like, kind of beats Gardi, and, like, Drago definitely beats Zard, like, I don't know, like, I can't even think of a good reason not to play Drago, but the problem is it's, like, too known, too soon. Like, I think that like Draugr Even though it's a box deck, there's only so many dragon attackers in the game,
Cam:like Yeah, no. Yeah, it's just like, arguing between the Noibern and, like, the Goudra, you know, it's limited its capability to adapt. Exactly, like People know it way too early in the cycle. Yeah, people would know about it way too early in the cycle, and this is, like, why Like, Raging Bold is just, even though it's like a, just go hard deck, and you're just sequencing, like, that's why it's good, right? Like, you can maybe cope yourself into convincing that it's like 50 50 against Zarding Gardi, and then you just flatline Regidrago, and you're like, that seems pretty good.
Liam:Yeah, I think, um, my, my input on this, you know, this Trinity stuff between Drago, Zard, Gardi is, I think I'd rather be the Guardi player in all of those matchups.
Abaan:I agree.
Liam:I agree, but that
Abaan:doesn't actually, like, that doesn't, that doesn't mean that the Draugr vs Guardi matchups are the same. Yeah, no, the matchups are still really close. It's like, hmm. The Zard when I, the Zard when I lead more towards, like, the Guardi being completely favorite, assuming there's, like, one Charmeleon or, like, Yeah, if the Zard is playing any of these, yeah, I think
Liam:Zard, or Garde should be really good in the Zard.
Abaan:I feel like Garde does have that like, control type aspect in that matchup where it's like, dude, you have so many like, issues, like Devo, Monkey, like, Monkey Confusion, like, the damage is everywhere, like, what the hell am I gonna do?
Liam:Yeah, I played the matchup with Henry, um, I played a few games last night, and we were playing on TCG Live, so it tells you how much damage, like, each player did, like, every time, right? And like, I'd be like, losing, except I'd have done like, 11, uh, 1100 damage, and he did like 200, bro. Cause I don't think it actually counts monkey damage, so. Oh, oh, I see. Um, yeah, and like, yeah, and then I lose, it's, yeah, and that's um, that's of course very reminiscent of like, you know, the, the screens that Control has after, into, uh, into Zard, right? Yeah,
Abaan:they like hit your, um, they hit your lucky for 180 every single turn, but uh, your penny. Yeah,
Liam:yeah,
Cam:exactly, right? Yeah,
Liam:like they attack like 10 times,
Cam:usually, so, even a little less. You know what part
Abaan:I thought would be better than it is? It's still good in Zard, but like, Fezendipity has been It's been great in Zard, but I thought it was going to be in every single deck I play, but like, I guess I'm not giving it enough chances, I'm not playing enough of the other stuff, but like, I don't think it's worth its spot in Drago, for example, like, I wouldn't be playing Phasidippi in Drago, I think it's like, kind of mid in Raging Bolt too, it's playable in Raging Bolt, but the bench space is like, a pretty huge commitment, especially if you had to squawk that game, and like, then you can't Mew, I don't know, I think like, Phasidippi is a good card, but it's like a Zard card.
Liam:Yeah, it's definitely amazing in Zarya. It's like, I think it's amazing with Pidget engine in general, right? It's like, it's a bib that you, you can get off Nessball, so you can play high Nessball counts with the Pidget and get like access to the bib while playing for Rotom turn one, which is just like amazing, right? Um, but yeah, and every, and everything else, like you feel the bench space a little bit more. Um, but I, I still think it's a good card. Not like great, like same opinion I've always had on it. It's, Like, fine. Um.
Abaan:I think I went too far the other way when I first saw the card. I thought it was, like, completely format shaking, busted, like, everyone's playing this card. And, uh, I now realize, like, it's, it's like any other card. It's, it has its spots in certain decks, but, uh, it's not, it's not Tapu Lele GX, you know? That's, like, I was, I was kinda going crazy. I was like, it has, like, a A usable attack like Tapu Lele, it's like very searchable and like very consistent like I was like oh dude we're all gonna play this card. Tori's gonna play two I bet, but that was wrong. The
Cam:style of deck I think it would be good in, but I actually don't know if this deck is good, but it did get first and second at a recent challenge of ours, is uh Turbo Dark. Not just because it's dark type, but it's just like the style deck. Not because of that, but it's just like the style deck that was, would want the the draw three. Right. And can probably afford the bench space because you're just like trying to saada slash dark patch onto like two Pokemon that U Yeah, I agree.
Abaan:I, I think it ity was like a ancient or something. If I could saada to it, that would make it so good. And raging bull, it'd be worth.
Liam:Yeah, yeah, I think the, the aggro decks right now are all playing the Ogre Pawn, right? But like, aggro decks that have a lot of bench space, very good, right?
Cam:And that's what it was good in, like, decks before, decks like, like Orocorio is good in, I think, Blowns. I think it's a similar deck where you're just trying to, like, hit Welder.
Abaan:I think, uh, Klefki is gonna be, like, the MVP of this world. It's like, Playing, like, the amount of free wins I get if I play a Klefki deck, it's gonna be so high, like, Oh, like, your deck just fizzled because you have, like, Vessel for two grass to draw two cards with the Aerial Teal Mask, but I just have Klefki active, like, Like, the format is so predicated on, like, using basic abilities, like, Even, like, Pidget or Zard or all these decks, like, the only deck that's immune to not getting Klefki'd is, like, the deck that plays Klefki, like, Garde, right? Like, Zard even, like, I've seen so many Zards just completely break because they I started Klefki, like, It's to the point where right now, I'm playing two Klefki just to like, increase my chance of raw starting it to 25%. It's like, such a terrible card, but it like, helps your block max matchup, and it just like, you start it like, a quarter of your games, and it's like, if I could play like, a dead slot in Guardi of all things, just win a quarter of games, it's worth it, cause like, Guardi already like, it just thins like, all these like, random techs you play anyways, like, what's the difference between playing second Klefki and playing E Hammer? They like, help in the same percentage of games, if not Klefki more.
Liam:I, uh, I feel the same. Um, I feel it in Guardi too, bro, cause I'm a ninja believer. There
Cam:is some anti synergy there, you know?
Abaan:I think, uh, the problem with Ninja is like, if there was a way to get Ninja out cleanly without playing Nest Ball, I would be all for it. But it's a rule it's a rulebox butterfly. My three Artisans don't get it, my four Poffins don't get it. Like, Ninja was, like, the most battle VIP card ever, but like We don't got that anymore. So, I don't know, I think it's kind of, you want to play a more techy, radiant Pokemon because you only really consistently can find it mid game.
Cam:Bro. The thing about The thing about The thing about Gardia, that's pretty interesting and I don't know, like I'm the one now going to Art of Gardia but the thing that's really interesting about Gardia is I think it's like not I don't know if it'll end up being the best deck for Worlds but it feels like that and Drago are like the most, like They're, like, warping the meta, right? Like, you need to play, like, I feel, and maybe it's just because I play against it so much, but it's just, like, goddamn, like, this Klefki shuts off so much stuff, and, like, and I'm going to a cup, today, with a bond, and I know what he's playing, and I'm just like, fuck, I, like, it limits my options, like, I don't want to play a deck that loses to Klefki, now that, like, I'm like, okay, I can't play that, I can't play that, I can't play that, and you're just like, oh my god, like, this card is so good. In so many matchups. Um, and then the Fluttermane. And the Fluttermane is obviously good too, it's just like kind of known at this point, but it's still like, ridiculously strong. Yeah, hard deck to beat, right? Hard deck to beat. Same with Drago.
Liam:Like, they're just strong decks. Yeah. Lots of threats.
Cam:And like, against Drago, there's just so many games where you're like, sitting there, like, holding onto your seat while they use their V Star, and you're like, Please don't hit what you need, please don't hit what you need, or like, the game is like, over on the spot. win
Abaan:so many times too, like, they like, it's clear to me and them based on how they're playing their turn, what they're looking for, and they like, they see so many cards, and they like, completely audible, and it's like a very good line as well. It's, uh, a lot of options for that V Star. I think it's like one of the better V Stars in the game right now.
Liam:Yeah, dude, I mean, two from, two from discard
Cam:is insane. Um And I think that will be, like, the, the, the skill defining part of that deck, right? When you decide to use the P Star and what you use to grab.
Abaan:Yeah, like, exactly, decks like that, the skill is like, literally from a single aspect of the gameplay, and like, obviously, that, Drago V Star, like, we're saying it's skill based, like, there's gonna be games where it's not rocket science, like, you just grab, like, the E Switch and the Prime Catcher and you just do the thing, right? But it's like, knowing when you have to make, like, a very complicated play. It's like, it's, it's the toughest because you play like, let's say you play 20 games, and like 10 of them are super, super standard issue, then like, just knowing, like, being able to identify you're in like, one of the weird games in the first place is like, already a very difficult skill, because most people actually like, they don't do it at all, and then they just go way too far the other way, like, every game they're looking for like, the crazy like, outplay like, dra like, dragon pull, take no prizes, set up for like, a six prize turn or some nonsense with Kira, but like, Just, like, knowing when you have to make a really complicated, like, tough line like that, in the midst of your, like, 20 bot games is, like, is a pretty hard skill. It's hard to master.
Cam:Yeah, I think that's, uh, that's
Liam:kind of what I meant with, like, the V Star. Like, when you choose to use it on turn 2 or later, it's like, Are you just going to run them down, or like, do you actually have to play for like, you know, trying to beat them on like the prize race, and like setting up multiple Dragos, like, you know, um, actually,
Cam:trying to like play like the entire game out.
Abaan:I'm surprised they went to Tina V Star. Like, I understand it, because like, I guess 280 is like the number to hit, it kills Pidget, it kills, uh, Dragos, but like, I actually really enjoyed playing Raging Bull in the deck. Especially with Superior and stuff, like, discarding Energies is just way better than Lawsoning them. Like, I was already discarding off the active anyways, so I don't really feel a difference between like, 2 and like, 4 to 5. And like, the main issue I have is like, I like my box decks to have like, one shot potential. Like, when I was playing Lost Box without any kind of one shot, like, without Roaring Moon and stuff, like, I don't know. At least there, you can get it done more with Sableye. Like, here I guess you do have Dragapult to clean up kills, but like, I don't like that I'm making this huge investment to have this like, Dragapult, I have to play E Switches and like do all this nonsense and like, I still don't one shot like everything because I don't play Bolt.
Liam:No, yeah, if there's like a turn that you're not, um, you're not, uh, that like you hit with the Tina and you don't take a KO, you just like instantly lose. Um,
Abaan:and so, yeah,
Liam:yeah, you do hit with the drag on stuff, but like, yeah, any time that you miss kind of like, key KOs like that though, you really feel it, right? If they can slow you down a little bit, like, the deck is not very sustainable, that's it's like, primary issue. Um, so like, if they're able to drag the game out a little bit because you missed an important knockout, that's like, um, it feels terrible, right?
Abaan:Like, the only reason Guardi can, like, win is like, a lot of times you use Guardi EX, like, Well, there's two outs. Like, often, you use Monkey, and like, they just don't have a switch, and then they come down to some, like, some crazy flip, and like, that's that's always, like, good for you, because even if they flip heads, like, you're just not the worst situation. They can't, like, they don't often want to, like, boss and Cologne under confusion. Like, that's too scary. Like, that's that's cr that's crazy. I
Liam:I tip my cap to every Drago player who has the guts for that, bro. I, like because sometimes sometimes it is the highest EV play, and when you recognize it Props to you.
Abaan:It's like, it's like the most disguised line. Like, I just assume that if I'm confused that they're going to get rid of Confucian or my, uh, I'm not getting Kiremed, right?
Liam:It's
Abaan:like, you're right, like, actually. No, yeah,
Liam:because you just lose on the spot if you, if you flip tails, but sometimes high CV, right? But yeah. Take that 50 50, right? That's
Abaan:your highest chance of winning. And the other thing, though, I was going to say was, like, Gardi, the other out is, like, just hitting with the Gardi and, like, it's invincible, right? Because they play, uh, Tina V Star and, like, you heal off the Gardi with your monkeys beforehand. Like, If, if they had a clean way of knocking out Guardi that didn't involve Raging Bull discarding five energies, I think they'd have like, they would have no chance to lose the Guardi. Like now it's like still favored for them for sure, but like, the reason I feel comfortable as the Guardi side is like I have so much counter play. Like you can't like, like Drago has to pay so much to do all their stuff. Like cur is cutting all their energies, both is cutting all their energies. P two B Star doesn't even take knockouts and lost those energies like so much. Counter play love counter play.
Liam:Garde goes
Cam:crazy, bro. So much aura.
Abaan:Garde goes crazy, bro. It's the only deck I want to talk about. Like, that deck is just so interesting. So hype. Every moment of this podcast, I'm just looking for a way to get Garde back in there, you know? It's a good deck. Yeah.
Cam:Okay. Um Dude, I don't think You want to switch them off? Yeah, I think that's I was going to say, I think that's really all the decks. I think We're all just trying to I think at this point you have like, a couple weeks left to potentially find like, a deck that isn't one of those six, but like, it feels like two weeks out you kind of just have to lock in one of those six if you haven't found something at that point.
Liam:Because you're going to have
Cam:to play games, right? I think these are high, these are high skill games, like, you're going to have to practice a lot with other people who are good. Like, fully understand all these matchups, because it is like six good decks. There's a lot of matchups on top of like, other ones you probably want to know offhand. What I'm feeling is too, is like, if you think that you have, you found
Abaan:something, like, outside of the six, and like, you're playing against your locals, you're playing against like, people who aren't that good, and then you play against like, a really cracked like, Zard, Guardi, like, even a really cracked Blockfax, etc., like, and then you realize like, you act, it doesn't actually work. Like, whatever you had in there, it doesn't actually work.
Liam:Yeah, I think if you're If you're trying to build something last minute, too, that's what leads to, like, sloppiness in deck building, where, like, you know, you just play cards that, like, don't make sense, um, and nobody wins worlds with a sloppy list, you know? Like, you gotta show up with something that, like, you know, you've really spent some time, and it should be evident that you've put some time into refining. So, yeah, I would say you probably have, like, till August to find something off meta.
Abaan:Because, like, the most egregious thing is, like When someone has something on the list, and when they explain it, they have to say, like, in the last iteration, I had XYZ, and, like, then I just, like, didn't take it out, right? Like, that, that's acceptable for, like, a regional, maybe. Maybe. Even then, I, like, I wish people would value their regionals more. It's, like, acceptable for, like, a cup, to be honest, like.
Liam:Yeah, I would never, never go into a regional like that, but yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, yeah, exactly. Like, that, the, when you send it, and, and you haven't spent, like, you haven't been able to put enough time into it, Um, that, that's exactly how you get, yeah, like,
Abaan:bad justifications
Liam:for your decisions, right? Just like, started there and never, never took it out.
Abaan:Yeah, I had like, Jirachi Manaphy in my deck at one point, and then I had like, two or three Poffin in my Pidgey list, and then like, I cut those cards, and Liam was like, looking at me, he's like, bro, you have like, two Pidgey, and like, two Poffin. That's it. Like, what the, what is going on here? And I'm like, oh yeah, you know, last list. Forgot. Tassig is for, right? Like, there's, like, it's like, it's just, it's kind of embarrassing. Like, how do you, how do you, like, how do you not take that out? There, there's no
Cam:synergy anymore. Yeah. All right, we've been going for an hour. Um, good place to leave it. John Paul's our outro.